#64: Building an Online Audience of Raving Fans

Date: November 16, 2020

Episode: 64

Title: Norman Farrar Introduces Dr. Travis Zigler, a Recovering Optometrist Turned eCommerce Entrepreneur and SeeEO of Eye Love. 

Subtitle: The Importance of Building and Engaging with your Online Community

Final Show Link: https://lunchwithnorm.com/episodes/episode-64-building-an-online-audience-of-raving-fans-w-dr-travis-zigler/

In this episode of Lunch With Norm…, Norman Farrar introduces  Dr. Travis Zigler, a recovering optometrist turned eCommerce entrepreneur and SeeEO of Eye Love.

Dr. Travis, together with his wife has a mission to help 1,000,000 dry eye sufferers naturally by the year 2030. He discussed how he built an incredible community online and some of his strategies on how he became a successful entrepreneur.

If you are a new listener to Lunch With Norm… we would love to hear from you. Please visit our Facebook Page and join in on episode discussion or simply let us know what you think of the episode!

In this episode, we discuss:

• 4:38 : Dr. Travis’ backstory and Charitable Services
• 10:17 : Importance of Building an Online Community
• 14:09 : How to Build a Community Online
• 23:55 : Setting Expectations
• 29:04 : Learning together with your Community
• 33:04 : Content Ideas online
• 39:14 : Interacting with Customers
• 40:55 : Sales is all that matters
• 43:07 : Tips to Convert Social Engagement to Sales
• 44:24 : Amazon Live
• 49:33 : Does Super URLs work?

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Explore these Resources

In this episode, we mentioned the following resources:

• http://profitablepineapple.com/
• https://salesfunnelhq.com/
• https://www.facebook.com/groups/AmazonPPCpros/
• https://www.facebook.com/doctortraviszigler
• https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEH606Bwri3_8EJDpYm-qtw
• The Dry Eye Show – Youtube Channel
• Amazon PPC Pros – Facebook Group
• Amazon PPC Pros – Youtube Channel

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Norman  0:01  

Hey everyone. It’s Norman Farrar, a.k.a The Beard Guy and welcome to another Lunch with Norm, the rise of the micro brands.

Norman  0:19  

Oh, all right. Well, today I’m joined by Dr. Travis Zigler, a recovering optimist turned eCommerce entrepreneur who will be discussing how to build an audience of raving fans. I’m gonna love this topic. In today’s episode, we’ll be talking about how over the last five years, Dr. Travis has built over 100,000 fans, and how you could too. So Kelsey, come on on now. Where are you?

Kelsey 0:48  

Hello.

Norman  0:49  

Man. I’m just back in the house. We had a wicked storm last night. We literally just came back into the house. We were at a hotel the whole night.

Kelsey 1:01  

You stayed at a hotel?

Norman  1:02  

Yeah. 

Kelsey 1:03 

Oh wow. 

Norman 1:04

So we walked in the door, turned on the camera and now we’re here.

Kelsey 1:09  

Wow. Okay, nice. Yeah, we got the storm too. A bunch of wind gusts and, yeah, it’s pretty crazy. Yeah, over here in Toronto. 

Norman  1:18  

So, what do we got today?

Kelsey 1:19  

Okay everyone, we’re gonna have a great show today. Happy Monday. Let us know what you did on the weekends, put in the comments section. Also, if you’re excited about the episode, give it a like, give it a share. If there’s someone that you think needs a little bit of help in their Amazon or eCommerce, go ahead and tag them. We are on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, pretty much all the social media. You can find this. Either you search Lunch with Norm or Norman Farrar and we’ll pop up and we are a podcast too. So Apple, Spotify, anywhere you listen to your podcasts, you can find us and yeah, we got a Facebook group. It’s growing. We got over 200 people in it. We’re having some good discussions there. So head on over there. I’ll put in the chat here and yeah, let us know what you think. If you have any questions throughout the show, go ahead and put them in the comments. I’ll pop them up when the time comes in. Yeah and we do have a giveaway, too. So if you’re interested in this special giveaway, make sure you watch the full episode. You might have to answer a question from the episode. So yeah, tune in for that.

Norman  2:35  

Yeah, it is a very expensive giveaway.

Kelsey 2:37  

Yes, it is. Alright, and Simon is joining us. Hey, Simon.

Norman 2:40

Hey, Simon.

Kelsey 2:41

I always need help. 

Norman 2:43

Nice to have your back. 

Kelsey 2:44

Perfect. Okay and that’s it for me. So.

Norman  2:47  

Okay, so just one more reminder, we are broadcasting to you live on Facebook, YouTube and LinkedIn and if you’re seeing this on a replay, skip ahead, you don’t have to see this, you want to get right into the meat and potatoes of everything. If you’re on my personal Facebook page, then just go over to the official Norman Farrar, a.k.a The Beard Guy and you’ll be able to see the whole episodes, content and all sorts of other little video clips that Kelsey has put together. All right, so if you do have comments, questions, please put them over in the comment box and we will get to them. If we don’t get to them right away. We’ll get to them shortly after the podcast. So sit back, relax, grab a cup of coffee I did and enjoy the podcast. So Dr. Travis, how are you?

Travis 3:43  

I’m doing well. I was actually distracted because I was just joining your Facebook group by the link you put in the comments.

Norman  3:48  

Oh, great. So now after this podcast, you will be bombarded.

Travis 3:55  

That’s alright, I love questions. I love making friends. So especially in the space, I’m sure you’ve built up a great group of people, a great group of entrepreneurs. I’m excited to talk to them.

Norman  4:02  

We  really do have a great community and anyways, I think just learning a bit more about you and what you’re doing. I mean, it’s incredible. You are the absolute type of person that we want to be involved with our group. So on that note, why don’t you tell everybody a little bit about what you do? Some of the services that you provide, and I’m talking about charitable services like you’re incredible.

Travis 4:30  

Yeah. So you called me a recovering optimist earlier, which I think I am but actually a recovering optometrist.

Norman  4:36  

Oh, yeah.

Travis 4:38  

No worries. I’m an optimist too. But I’m not recovering. I think I still am an optimist. So kind of a good thing to continue to be an optimist, I guess but to kind of give you all the viewers and everything the listeners a background, my wife and I are both optometrists, we’re eye doctors. We graduated in 2010 and 2011, started working for my uncle. My uncle has this huge practice in Columbus, Ohio and we worked for him. But I felt this itch to do more and I just couldn’t figure out what it was and I actually quit my uncle’s job and my wife quit her job, too. We moved cross country from Ohio to South Carolina and we started two practices of our own, in 2015. So after about four or five years, working for my uncle, and then, at the same time, Amazing Selling Machine, which I’m sure some of you have heard of, came across our desk, we purchased that ASM four or five, I can never remember and we started that business at the same time and so we started out as a sunglass company and now we are more of a dry eye focused company focused on more natural treatments for dry eye disease. If you’re saying what is dry eye, that’s good, that means you don’t have it. But so the last three half years have really been focused on building our audience of people that we serve in our mission with Eye Love is to heal 1 million dry eye sufferers naturally and then what we do is we use the profits from Eye Love to give to our charity called the Eye Love cares foundation and with that charity, we actually go do mission work across the world. We go every spring to somewhere in Latin America, like Mexico, Peru, Ecuador, those are three countries we’ve been to. We go to Jamaica every October, and serve the country of Jamaica, just because we love that island and then in the summer, we go to some other Caribbean island. We’ve been to Turks and Caicos, we’re going to go to St. Lucia this year. But of course, COVID happened and then we’re hoping to get back to it next year. So the charitable thing is kind of our mission in life. We came across that in 2006, when we went on our first mission to Ecuador, when we were students and I had a guy there that I helped with his pressure inside eye. I brought that down and he started crying and gave me a big hug and then that’s when I knew I was hooked for life and it’s a really cool profession to be in. Because it’s the only profession we’re in that you can give people something. It’s a doctor that doesn’t just tell you you have cancer or anything, we’re giving sight to people and so what people don’t realize is there’s a billion people that are blind, due to lack of glasses in this world. 1 billion people with a B and so if you can give them a pair of reading glasses, you could give them their job back, you can give them their life back, they can read the Bible again. But what most people in first of all countries can go buy at the store, which is a pair of reading glasses, they have no access to them. Because they don’t have them at their stores. They can’t afford them. They don’t know what’s going on, they think they’re going blind. But then you throw a pair of readers on them, and they break down in tears, they can read their Bible again, if they’re a fisherman, they can fish again, instead of being a beggar. So there’s just so much that a pair of glasses can do. So we love that part of the job and we get to go on trips three times a year. We didn’t think we were going to be able to do what we do now, as far as the mission work until we were about six years old. So the fact that we were able to start going more full time in this going three times a year at the age of 33 and 34 was pretty amazing for us.

Norman  7:53  

We had an interesting guy on my other podcast, I Know This Guy and he was a Brazilian musician, very well known. His name’s Marcella Brodsky and he was blind, legally blind from the time he was, I think into his 20s and then he started, I don’t know, the operation, but he had his sight restored. But oh my gosh, this guy had a story and a half about how his parents wanted him to feel normal. So they got him a driver’s license, he drove a car with 3% vision, and he got into an accident, who would have thought? But anyways, really incredible guy, and just you talking about some of these issues and what you’re able to do, and giving back. I really love what you’re doing. I mean, we’ve talked a few times and I’ve heard this over the last probably two years as I’ve known you, but you give back and you don’t want anything for it and I don’t want to make your face turn red. But, I just want to give you two thumbs up.

Travis 9:05  

Well, I appreciate that and it’s one of the best things you can do in this life and I always hear about entrepreneurs that are lonely, or they’re feeling sad, or they’re just kind of depressed and usually I tell them that they’re not serving enough and if you’re not focused on service, and you’re more focused on self, then you’re not going to be happy and so that’s what we’ve always kind of focused on and we’re starting to get involved more locally. We just moved to Austin, Texas, and we’re trying to get involved locally. But of course with COVID happening, it kind of shook things up a little bit. But we’re still able to give back and it’s not just a money thing, give back your time and your time is valuable, of course as an entrepreneur, but you’re going to fulfill yourself more and you’re going to get better ideas for your business by just giving back because you’re taking your mind off of business and going somewhere else and so that’s what I love about serving and serving other people because you will learn more in these areas of service than you will, if you just stuck with working on your business.

Norman  10:05  

Right. Yep, I agree. 100%. So let’s dig into these hundred thousand raving fans. Yeah. So first of all, what’s the importance of building an online community?

Travis 10:17  

It’s just, it’s a no brainer. Like everybody that asked me, How do I start selling on Amazon today? I always ask them, well, who do you want to serve? Or if they asked me, what product should I come out with? I’m doing product research right now, what products should I come out with? I always ask them, who are you serving and if they can’t answer that question, their business is bound to fail and we’ve always been, we’ve always wanted to serve the dry eye customer, I can’t say always, we followed the training of product selection first and that’s how we were sunglass brand first, and we still sell sunglasses, but it’s not our priority anymore. We couldn’t really build a person to serve around that. You can, but we couldn’t figure it out and we wouldn’t get excited about it. But in our practice, we were seeing dry eye customers over and over again and I was selling a bunch of products off my shelf and people were just like, I was at a conference one day, and somebody was like, there’s a doctor up on stage and he was getting drilled by a bunch of other people and he was a functional medicine doctor selling other people’s stuff and somebody said, You’re the expert, why don’t you sell your own brand and light bulb went off, I’m selling all these other brands in my practice, and we serve the dry eye customer already, why don’t we sell it with our own brand and then the real turning point came when somebody came to us with a product that we sold and it went from 30 to $300 a month and they asked us to come up with one better. This has nothing to do with your question, but I’m gonna get back to that eventually. But so we just started replacing every product on our shelf to serve the customer that we wanted to serve and there are already products out there, what’s his name, Cameron Harold always talks about the RND Method, which is ripoff and duplicate and we saw what some of the best companies in our space were doing and selling and we just came out with a our versions of our own. But instead of focusing on the product so much, we focused on the service of the person and serving that specific demographic of dry eye sufferers and once you really start focusing on that person, everything else becomes so much easier. So when we launch a product now on Amazon, I’m not doing product research to see if there’s a hole in the market that I can squeeze in there. I’m focusing on what does this product or how does this product serve my person and if it does serve that person, then I’ll come out with it. If it doesn’t, then we usually don’t come out with it and so our demographic is a 61 year old female, and she suffers from dry eye. So we try to naturally heal her dry eye condition by using less preservatives, less junk, most of our moisturizers and face washes have so many toxic chemicals in them and so we’re coming out with more natural, more organic products for your face, your skin. But we started out with the eyes and the eyelids. Now we’re coming out with face washes and eye creams and face lotions and all this stuff to really serve that customer and when you serve a customer, you can launch a product on Amazon and not worry about the fact that face moisturizer is pretty competitive on Amazon. I don’t worry about it and we sold 500 in the first two days and that was a result of building that audience and serving that person. So I feel like I brought that full circle to answer your question. Right?

Norman  13:24  

There we go. So before we get to the next question, I just want to give a few shout outs here. So we saw Simon’s here. Dr. Koz is back, Yarrow.

Kelsey 13:36  

Alan.

Norman  13:37  

Oh, Alan is back. Yeah. Hi, guys and anybody else, sir? Any questions as of now?

Kelsey 13:44  

No. But Simon did say something very sweet. He said, I give an hour every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to Lunch with Norm. Does that count as giving time? I should learn a heap of goodness to get fulfillment from him.

Norman  13:55  

So that’s great to hear. Thank you, Simon. Alright, so where do you start? Like you’ve got 100,000 influencers or fans? Where does somebody start?

Travis 14:09  

Yeah, it just starts with one fan. So, I always hear people talk about how like, when you’re building your team out, you want to hire customer service first, you want to hire social media second. We have over 100,000 followers and just to go into like a little bit of revenue, that’s about a $4 million company. We should do more in the next year. But I am still on social media every single day, me, myself, not my executive assistant, not my social media manager. Me and my wife. My wife and I are still there every day. We’re interacting with our group, we’re interacting with our fans. We’re messaging our fans and I answer personal text messages from the people that follow us, questions about dry eyes and people want to get rid of that first, but the interaction that you have with your fans or the people that follow you or the people that you’re serving is huge. It’s the biggest thing you can do. Because when you can develop that one on one relationship, you may not seem like it’s scalable, but it is, you just chunk it and so it just starts with one person, one interaction and if you can make that person, a fan, that’s huge and it’s so big. So where we started was a Facebook group, we started a Facebook group called the Dry Eye Syndrome Support Community, I recommend following that, if you want to see how we do things. All we did with that is we went live in it once a week and going live in a group that has nobody in it, nobody shows up. But we kept going live and we kept posting, and we kept posting polls, and nobody interacted, nobody showed up. But we just kept going and eventually you start to feed that algorithm on Facebook for a Facebook group and people just start joining because they’re searching for dry eye on Facebook and then as people start joining, it starts moving up in the ranks and it shows that there’s more engagement, because the algorithm on Facebook is engagement. So if there’s a lot of comments, there’s a lot of people posting, if there’s a lot of people interacting with polls or your Facebook Live, then your group is going to shoot to the top of whenever somebody’s searching for whatever they’re searching for, which is dry eyes and so that’s how it all started. But at the same time, we’re getting frequently asked questions on the group. How come my eyes water too much when I have dry eyes? So we created a blog post, we did a video and with that blog post and video, we answered the question, What do my eyes water? So now whenever that question comes up, we can post them back to our blog to get more followers on our blog and so our blog started out with just 1000 people per month, thank you, and the 1000 people per month, and maybe not even that maybe 100 people per month and now it’s up to 130,000 per month and it’s all about building this tribe, we did it with Facebook groups, do it with whatever you’re going to check consistently and whatever you’re using, or your target demographic is using, because if you’re not going to check it, then it’s just gonna die. So we don’t do Instagram, we don’t do Pinterest, we do YouTube in a Facebook group and so that’s all we do, because that’s what we like to do. I scroll YouTube feeds, my wife scrolls Facebook feeds and so that’s kind of, we’re just like, that’s what we like to do. So let’s just stick with that. We have an Instagram account, we have a Pinterest account, we have all those other accounts, but we don’t use them. Even we have two Facebook pages that have 50,000 likes combined, but we don’t do anything with them. We just focused on the group and the YouTube and so we started out with the Facebook group, just feeding the algorithm by doing more. Then we came out with blog posts and videos around like we would go live with these videos. But you don’t have to go live, you can just do written word if you want. My wife likes written, I like videos. So we did what we liked and then when people go over to our blog, that’s when we ask them for an email address. We’ll give them a free dry eye book that we wrote in exchange for their email address. So we started getting these emails, one to two a day, maybe, maybe one to two a week, it just starts you have to start somewhere. Don’t compare yourself to my big number of 100,000. Because three years ago, I was in your shoes thinking how am I ever going to get 200,000 followers, I only have 10 and it’s just you have to start somewhere and so we kept it incredibly simple at the beginning. Facebook group was the focus, we came up with a blog post with a video that answered questions that we were frequently getting. So now when somebody posts a question to our group, we have a blog and a video that we can point them to, which is why that blog continues to grow. We went from 100 a month to 125,000 a month and growing. Our traffic is up 2x this year, compared to last year, and I guarantee we’ll do 2x next year. That’s a result of doing this. So then you collect the email address and then you email them when you come out with new blog posts or when you go live, which then continues that snowball. Because you’re going up in Google ranks, you’re going up in Facebook ranks and this is something that we started three and a half years ago with the dry eye side and now we have 100,000 followers, but we just started a year ago with the Amazon site and we already have 3000 followers. But again, it started with one person and interactions that are very intimate and personal and a big thing about social media is you have to remember what it’s called. It’s called social media. It’s not called, delegate it to your VA from India or Philippines and let them just do whatever they can to try to juice the algorithm. It’s being social with people and wherever your audience is based, you want to be social with them, how they like to be social and so again, going back to the interactions, personal Facebook messages, posting on the group, posting polls, commenting on everybody’s group posts, so you don’t have to do this daily. My wife does it daily. I do it once a week, Thursday’s my time, I sit down for an hour, I open up the groups and I go nuts. I put it in about 200 comments, posts, whatever I want to do. When you’re getting started though, do as much as you can. Do a 100 interactions either in your group or somebody else’s group, don’t spam another person’s group, provide value and so like, I just joined Norm’s group, and I’m not going to go in there and post links to all my blog posts, I’m going to go in there and provide value and then eventually, what happens as you provide value, people will start to reach out to you. I joined an accountability in a mastermind group and they were very hesitant because we have some competing products and I told him, I won’t post any links to my stuff, I’m just going to provide value to your group and that’s all I do. So we get on these calls, we provide value and I provide value and just answer questions. Not mentioning anything of my services, or what we sell. But people reach out to you asking you for help, then, because they see you as that expert, as that dry eye expert and people reach out to you organically with whatever you’re trying to go forward through or forward with. So whatever your product you’re selling, whatever you do, just make sure it’s in an area that you want to serve, an area that you want to be in and it’s either from a pain that you’re experiencing, a heaven you’re experiencing or in our case, we were optometrists, and we saw a need for dry eye to be disrupted a little bit. Because most people think that an artificial tear fixes your dry eye, but it just covers up a bigger problem and so we took a completely different approach and we follow Eastern Medicine practices to heal your dry eye and so we took a different approach. Plus, we knew how to heal it naturally and we knew we wanted to serve that population, because there’s 40 million sufferers just in the US alone and that’s like 12% of our population. Which if you take that worldwide, that’s like a billion dry eye sufferers. So there’s a need out there. So that was a long winded answer. But I hope that kind of got to the point.

Norman  22:06  

It did and one thing I wanted to add about that, yeah, I tried to do it. Well, I tried to delegate, I always try to delegate a lot of things that I’ve done in the past, and still do. But what I found was I made a major mistake. So Wilfried Ligthart, who was on the podcast a couple days ago, he took a look at one of the accounts I had, and I wanted to get followers. So I hired somebody to get followers for me, and this is one of my products and have over 100,000 followers. Well, he said, you might as well forget it. Every one of these followers are like high 90s, we’re just quick, penny followers that will never engage with you, your group’s worth nothing and I guess the comment I want to make is that you can grow a group like yours organically. Get 100,000 followers. Don’t try to take shortcuts. At the end of the day, you get what you pay for and by adding value, and not trying to sell and not trying to sell. Wilfried always says I love talking to Wilfried. He says you have to engage before you get married and that’s about it. You said it, it’s social media and somebody posts a question, if you let it sit there for a month and a half, you think they’re gonna come back? So yeah, I’m kind of curious about this, Travis. So you said that on Thursdays you get back to people? What happens like with comments, do you just have it once a week that they expect, like these are the expectations that are set within the group, that Thursdays you’re going to get back to everybody?

Travis 23:55  

Yeah, so my wife, luckily, I have a teammate. My wife is also an optometrist and so she’s in the community pretty much daily, because that’s what she enjoys doing. I don’t enjoy doing it daily. I don’t get overwhelmed, but I get annoyed and so I like to control my annoyance and so if I’m annoyed with something, just you have the ability to walk away from it. But Thursday is the time that I block and if I have some downtime here and there, I’ll go in there and jump in. But it’s a lot of work to engage with. Our Facebook group is almost 13,000 now, and we get tagged all the time and so you really have to like be patient with it and if it starts to annoy you, just go away from it for a while. So how I realized my best ability to do that is just to go on Thursdays and answer all of it. So YouTube comments as an example, we actually hired somebody to do YouTube comments in our The dry eye show, only because it was I mean, we get like 200 a day and it was just unmanageable from us and so we do have somebody that does that for us but then inside the group, I still do it and my wife still does it. But we still have help with other people, because two of our team members go in there and help us because it’s just a blog post that we can post to answer their questions most of the time. But then most people will, they know that I don’t interact as much as my wife and so they usually tag her first. But people will expect whatever you give them. So if you’re one of those people that text back right away, or comments right away, then all of a sudden you stop, then they’re gonna think something’s wrong, or it’s just, it’s whatever, it’s however you start and so if you only check your email once a week, let people know that and only check your email once a week, don’t respond right away and just check it that once a week. So it’s just about a matter of just doing it and committing to that time period, whether it’s twice a week, three times a week, four times a week, five times a week. But we have other people that help us now. But being in there once a week still helps them know that I’m still there and I say a couple times. But then also at the beginning, we didn’t have the help. We did all ourselves and so you can grow into the help and figure out what needs to but you still need to be personally in there, because people want to know it and no matter how big your business is, I know people that have a $300 million business and they’re in their group every single day. They commit an hour every single day, and their business is doing over $300 million a year and so you’re never too big to interact with your customers. So you just need to commit the time to it and just determine how much you want to commit to it.

Norman  26:38  

When you’re looking to get new people as well, are you going into other people’s groups, trying to post and get people to come back to your group or come back to your profile page or anything? 

Travis 26:54  

I’ve never liked doing that. It’s just always felt icky to me and so I’ve never done that. I’ve always just provided value, if I’m in another group, I don’t do it as much anymore now, because our group is just growing organically. But at the beginning, we just kept posting, that’s all we did, and kept pushing people to the Facebook group and Facebook loves that and they’ll just juice your algorithm up eventually. But just keep posting, no matter how many people show up. If one person shows up, that’s one person, say hi to them, get them on the show like this. There’s opportunities too, if you’re live to get somebody on there with you. So there’s so many ways to really nurture your audience even at the beginning. But it’s just take the time to get to know your audience, learn their needs, learn their wants and then just serve them. It’s that simple. We overcomplicate things with all these softwares and flows and everything, but it’s just that simple. Just post on Facebook in a group. That’s the route you want to go and the more interactive you are, the more engagement you’re going to get, the more comments you’re going to get, the higher you’re going to go up in the algorithm for Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and then you’ll just keep, eventually what happens is it just starts to snowball, and it just grows from there naturally and that’s what kind of worth stage we’re at now.

Norman  28:16  

I like the approach you’re taking to trying not to be all things to everybody when it comes to social media. I’ve seen a lot of people stretch themselves too thin, and they try to get on TikTok, Pinterest, everything and being able to focus on YouTube and Facebook and that’s not necessarily, I think we should be clear on that too. Where’s your demographic? So it might be better to go over to Pinterest, rather than going on to Instagram or maybe onto YouTube or wherever. You’ve got to go and check that out for yourself. But becoming an expert in those two and not stretching yourself too thin, I think that’s another thing that people should probably take a good look at. They don’t have to be all things to all people.

Travis 29:04  

Yeah, Facebook group was the only thing we started and that was it and then we started branching out from there. Now we have a podcast, we have a YouTube channel. We have the group, of course, and the blog and all that. But it all started with just a Facebook group. That is it. We weren’t writing blogs at that time. It was just the Facebook group and it grew from there. It’s hilarious. I have not deleted my very first video I did live there, just because it is so good. It is literally like me looking down at the camera like it’s like this close looking at my nose and I’m talking about we’re gonna be talking about Vitamin E and dry eye today. Then I look up at my screen to look at my notes and then I look back down and start reading again. I mean, it was so boring and I am pretty monotone to begin with. But I bring a lot more energy to conversations now than I used to. Like if I was in an interview with you back then I’d be like, thanks for having me on Norm, I really like being here. But now I bring the energy because people want to see the energy. We laugh, we make fun of each other, my wife and we poke fun at each other, she always corrects me, because I’m always wrong with my grammar and people feel real now and we bring our son, our son talks, and they know our life. They know our life story. It’s not just about products. It’s telling them stories about how we’re developing a product, we’ve had a product completely fail. We released it in January, it had mold issues. So we had to recall it, we went through eight months of product research and development, we released it again, sold 1000, mold issues again. So we recalled it again, it’s very hard to make a lotion that’s non toxic without any preservatives, because mold is a big issue and bacteria. So we documented it and we messed up, we did a Facebook Live, we did a disservice, I think title it like, we messed up, and we’re sorry and the amount of comments that came from that, that were heartfelt, like, you didn’t mess up, you serve us in so many different ways, we’ll support you no matter what, we can’t wait to get the lotion back out and so we turn this negative into a positive twice and we even did micro testing tons of micro testing, and it all passed. But then once we released it to the masses, it came back negative, but we turned that negative into a positive by just being open. We’ve had huge things happen in our lives, and things that I never wish upon anybody, and I hope nobody ever has to experience it and we shared that with them and the love that came from that community, thousands and thousands of comments and people feel like they’re a part of your life. We don’t do that to be manipulative, we do that because that’s our family, we serve them and the coolest part about it is as this community has grown, we’re the doctors, we’re the optometrist, or the dry eye specialists, they teach us more than we teach them and if you don’t learn from your customers, then you’ll die and we learned so much from them and they teach us just an enormous amount of information and then they’ll say, what do you guys think of this, and I’m like, I’ve never heard of that. So then I’ll go find a specialist on it and I’ll do an interview on our channel for it and they love that. But I’m learning as well, we have an interview come out every Monday with a specialist in some field, doesn’t have to be dry eye related. But this is all because we’re learning from them. We’re constantly interacting with them and learning from them as well. So yeah, it’s just share your experience of product research and development. Share your life. I mean, these are people that you’re doing life with, and you’re helping them out along the way, solving a pain point or getting them to a heaven point and so that, I don’t know, just have fun with it.

Norman  32:40  

So for the content, the different content that you’ve talked about so far is blog posts, polls, just talking and posting, are there any other specific types of content that you’re putting into the Oh, you also are, I guess, are posting your YouTube videos, any other types of content?

Travis 33:04  

Yes, to the blog, YouTube videos, our main two now and then we also live in the Facebook group of course and then the podcast is also but that’s just kind of, syndicating content across multiple platforms. The real life stories, so like just talking, going live about something hard that we’re going through, or something that happened to us in our business or personally, wishing them happy holidays, wishing them a Merry Christmas, wishing them different things, just talk, just enjoy being with them. You can do this with the written word, if you like typing. You can do this with a video, if you like being on video. You can do this just audio, if you just like being on audio. So there’s so many different types of content that you can come out with, there is no right or wrong. It’s you getting to know your customer and them getting to know you and you can even get a software like stream yard like we’re using right now and get people on your show. So like we post the link to join the show in the comments below the live video and if they want to come on live and get questions answered, they can, but they know they’re going to be on live video. So you can do things like that. Get experts on, do live shows just like this one. There’s so much you can do with it. That there’s no like, there’s no limit. I mean, you can do whatever you want, talk about whatever you want and you’re just going to focus it around, that customers need and desire. But then, throwing some personal stuff in there, too. Don’t be afraid to do a poll is extremely effective. We just did a poll last week that thought Facebook was going to boot us for it, but it was just would you guys be interested in a forum that was not on Facebook and so getting a forum off of Facebook on our website that was all about dry eye and 500 people said yes 100 people said no, and they created this slew of comments of this or that even got political because I guess there’s now like political social media channels now I didn’t know about. But that is like an example of a poll can be extremely effective in getting interaction in your community. Because it’s a simple yes or no or like, which product would you rather come out with? So when we’re doing product research, which product would you rather come out with? Lotion, oil, this or that and they’ll tell us and that’s what we can come up with next. Which design do you like for packaging better this or this and then they’ll let us know the packaging design they like better. What name do you like better for a brand? They named a brand Heyedrate and we were Eye Love before we got in a lawsuit in 2017 for the name, and we had a product that we wanted to release. So our attorneys like you can’t release it under the Eye Love name, release it under a new name. So we went to the community, we said, what should we name our new product line, they said Heyedrate with instead of the y, its eye. So Heyedrate and that’s how we came up with the name. So you can do anything. It’s limitless, like what you can come up with, and what you can do with your audience and that’s the fun thing like, split test a photo. Which photo do you like better for an image on Amazon and they’ll choose for you and that’s better than coming out with an image that nobody likes.

Norman  36:11  

Right. Or going over to UsabilityHub spending $200 on a five minute audience, man, yeah, yeah, cost a lot. One question before we get to the questions. When you’re and this is kind of a touchy one, when you’re working with a Facebook group. Are you ever promoting your product or getting people to try to go over to your fan page?

Travis 36:35  

100% Yeah, we do it all the time. So our own Facebook group, we don’t do another’s. But yeah, so we, our biggest competitor is that pharmaceutical company that I told you about earlier, they went from $30 to $300 a month and whenever somebody brings up that product in our group, I say we have a free offer, I’d love for you to try to switch to ours, here’s a free plus shipping offer, you get it for free, you just have to pay $7 shipping and handling, we’d love for you to try it and so it’s a natural organic conversation, to get them to switch from our competitor to us. Our competitor does a lot more than us. They’ve been around for 12 years. But we leverage that to get them on ours because we’re only $20 a month, and the competitor was 300. Now it’s back down to 30 a month and now they sell on Amazon too. So yeah, we naturally try to get them on it for free. Because we know they’ll be back. We have about a 60% repeat customer rate and so with that number, you can give away that first product for free and then in our blog posts, in our content, we talk about the challenge that they’re having, whatever that is we earlier we talked about, why do my eyes water with dry eyes? We educate them on completely why that happens. Here’s how to fix it. Oh, by the way, we have products for that and then those products are talked about later on in the article. But it’s warmed up first with a Facebook question going over to a blog post that answers their question or concern to get them out of the hell that they’re in the problem. We’re solving the problem and then here’s the solution with our product. So we try to base most of our content around the problem that our product solves, not the features that our product has. But the problem that our product solves.

Norman  38:15  

Right. Okay Kels, looks like we’ve got a bunch of comments and a few questions.

Kelsey 38:20  

Yep. Yeah and speaking about building the community online, like, as we’ve had this Facebook page and like this podcast happening for I think, seven, eight months now and the people that come and watch the show, like you’ll see like, wow, Yarrow, Simon, Nathan, all these people, we see them every single week, three times a week and it’s like we know them. It’s really cool. 

Norman  38:45  

It really is incredible. They really get to know the people. I can see everybody on right now and last week, we had a whole bunch of new people, which was kind of interesting, asking a bunch of questions. So that was cool, too.

Kelsey 38:58  

All right. So question time, a couple of these questions have been answered. So Yarrow had one but he got it answered. This one, I think we pretty much answered, I get that being on the front line yourself, you know more than anyone. However, it takes so much time. How do you manage that?

Travis 39:14  

So I talked about that earlier. Yeah, just like the block out your time for it. Block out a certain time period, because this is one of the most important things you can do is interact with your customers. I don’t do it so much anymore. But there, there was a time that I was actually calling my customers, I would call 10 per day. So I’d have an hour in my schedule every single day, I need to get back to doing this and I go to my Shopify store, look at my top customers, not just call them, go down the line and call them and usually eight out of 10 times I’d get a voicemail but they’re getting a voicemail from the CEO of the company, a doctor and you don’t have to be a doctor, by the way, but the CEO of a company is a cool thing to get a voicemail from and then the ones that answer like since we have our YouTube following and our Facebook following. They think they’re talking to a celebrity and I’m not a celebrity. I’m just a regular guy, just running a company and they love it because they’re like, wait, like Dr. Travis from the YouTube channel? I was like, Yes, it is me and they’re like, okay, who is this really and I’m just like, no, it’s really me. Like, is there anything I just wanted to thank you for and I don’t even like, I’m not calling them for any reason. I’m just calling them to say thank you. That’s it and did you have anything that we could do better to make your experience better with Eye Love and they sometimes say, No, I think you guys are great. or other times they have questions for me and I’ll answer them, some phone calls or a minute. Of course, voicemail ones are even shorter, some I’ve been on the phone for an hour with some customers before. So I used to do that. I don’t do it as much anymore. I need to get back to it. So thanks for reminding me.

Norman 40:42

There you go.

Kelsey 40:45  

The next one, also from Simon. You have 13,000 Facebook followers. What is the 130 you mentioned? What’s the difference and what metric is the most important?

Travis 40:55  

Yeah, so 130,000 is we have an email list of 65 YouTube subscribers, the Dry Eye Show, we’re at 46 and then the Facebook group is 13. Then if you want to throw in the worthless Facebook pages, that’s another like 45,000. But I don’t believe those are even worth mentioning. So if you put all the numbers, it’s almost close to 200,000. But what actually matters is sales. That’s the only thing that matters is sales. It doesn’t matter how big your audience is, if your sales are increasing, that’s what matters. So like, I’m in an Amazon Mastermind, and everybody talks about keyword research and this and that, and I follow my keywords and my keywords dropped by two ranks and this and that and they’re always like, what do you follow and I say, sales is the only thing that matters, I don’t care what are my keywords are, as long as sales are okay. If sales are great, and they’re continuing to climb or stay steady, then I don’t really need to diagnose anything too much. If we see a drop off all of a sudden, for more than one day, because we monitor sales every single day, how many we sold of every single product, I get a report around noon of every single day and when I see that drop off, that’s when we go into keyword tracking. That’s when we go into impressions on Amazon ads. That’s when we go into Google ads. That’s when we go into Facebook ads and see if something stopped delivering. Or if our keyword ranking dropped, or if a competitor came in. That’s when we start going into that. But sales is the only metric that matters because that’s the lifeblood of your business. That’s your heart. That’s the beating heart. That is it. Measure sales and of course we measure other things too. But sales is the biggest thing. I don’t care how big my email list gets, as long as our sales continue to increase. That’s the only thing that matters and if sales don’t continue to increase as my email list grows, that means I’m doing something wrong and so I need to figure out what’s going wrong. Am I going after the wrong target market? Am I getting emails the wrong way? Sales is all that matters.

Kelsey 42:58  

Okay, great and speaking of that, how do you convert your social to actual sales on Amazon or Shopify, any blockbuster tips?

Travis 43:07  

Blockbuster tips, I kind of mentioned this a little bit before. But we started building our blog around questions we’re getting in our group and so it’s kind of a, they kind of cycled together eventually. But when somebody asks a question, we now have a blog or a video that goes over it and usually, we answer the problem, the problem that they’re trying to solve, and our product is one of the solutions and so we say check out this blog and video that we wrote about this topic. They go over to our blog, the blog answers the question that they have and then here’s the solution for it with the product and so don’t focus on the features of your product. That’s the biggest problem I see with everybody. Focus on the problem, the problem, the problem that your product solves. People don’t care what your product does. They care how it gets you from this point to where they want to be. That’s it. The problem that your product solves, that’s it.

Norman  44:06

The problem. 

Travis 44:08

Did I say it enough?

Norman 44:10

No, I’m just repeating what you said, the problem. The pain points.

Kelsey 44:15  

Okay, great. We just have one more from Dr. Koz. Are you doing any Amazon live? If so, what’s your experience with it?

Travis 44:24  

Amazon live, Yes, I am. My experiences it’s so indifferent like I’m still trying to figure it out. But I think I’ve got it kind of figured out. So with Amazon live, it has to be keyword driven and that product has to be specific for that keyword and so an example we did like Amazon live about our Heyedrate lid lash cleanser, our best selling product, we sell 250 of them a day and it’s an amazing product. It works so well. Gets searched about 1000 searches a month for that brand specific keyword and we did a Facebook or an Amazon live on Heyedrate, how to use Heyedrate or the benefits of Heyedrate lid lash cleanser or something like that and we got like two people to join and it was just like it was worthless, we put $200 behind it and nothing happened. Then we did a video on warm compresses for eyes and that was a keyword that one of our product sells for, we have a warm compress that goes over your eyelids, and you close your eyes. It’s like a spa therapy type thing, but it helps with the glands inside dry. But we use the top keyword for that product, which was warm compress for eyes. That was the title of the Amazon live and we had 75 people on and I was just like, Okay, I think we’re onto something here. So with Amazon live, you need to download your search term report inside campaign manager, look at the search term that is for that product, whatever product you’re going live with, and make that in the title, because I think it’s heavily search term driven and so then when you go live with that search term in the title, when somebody is on Amazon searching for that, then you might show up. I have no idea though, because Amazon gives you nothing on Amazon live, they just tell you to go live and it’s just like, okay, and do a QVC format and their platform is terrible for it. But that’s what we’re trying and so find the search terms that your products are really selling for and go live with that search term in the title and for that product, of course.

Kelsey 46:19  

Okay, great and got one more coming in from Simon. Do you mind sharing the split between sales channels, AMZ, Shopify others, which channels do you focus spend on driving the traffic?

Travis 46:32  

I focus on one thing and one thing only, Amazon. Because you’ll get distracted, I’ve made the mistake of going for Shopify. I’ve got made the mistake of going for Clickfunnels, I’ve made the mistake of going to Amazon Europe, I’ve gone to Amazon, Canada, Australia, I’ve made those mistakes and when we consolidate everything back in to just focusing on Amazon US, we took off again and when we didn’t, when we diverted our focus to other things, I hired a team for Shopify last year, and we lost 150,000 on Shopify. This year, we’re 200,000 positive on Shopify, and we got rid of our team and so we focus on Amazon 100%. All our blog posts go to Amazon. Everything that we mentioned in the group goes to Amazon and Shopify is about 25% of our sales. But that’s as a result of just getting a bunch of traffic on our blog, and then retargeting them. So we only spend about 3000 on Facebook ads a month and we produce about 70,000 in sales 60 to 70,000 on Shopify and all we do is retarget the people that were on our blog, that’s it, and we retarget them with other articles they might be interested in. But all those articles, shoot over to Amazon with links, because we’re trying to drive the Amazon algorithm and it comes with challenges. Like this last three months, we had 11 products suspended and we only have 20 products. So we had over half of our products suspended this last three months. Amazon just came for us and that happens. I hear about this all the time and we’ve got all of them, but one backup and but when we add a link from a blog post over to Amazon, it went to that stupid puppy dog page that says, I’m sorry, this product doesn’t exist anymore and so then we had to change the links to be back on our site and so we have close to 500 blog posts over the three years, not enough 500 probably closer to 300. But either way, we had to go back in and change all those links then when we were living, and we had to change it back. So it comes with challenges, but focus on one channel, Amazon, that’s our focus. We’re not diverting from it. We actually just started doing retail about three months ago, and I already got rid of our retail person, because it was just a big distraction for us and it was frustrating and so I was like, nope, we’re going back to Amazon. So that’s all we focus on is Amazon.

Norman  48:47  

Did Raja have a question?

Kelsey 48:50  

Yeah. So Raja, she just said what an amazing topic. So thank you, Raja. Hope you’re enjoying it and Simon also said, the beauty of the internet is that it’s so cheap to get a chunk of your audience. Like you say it’s limitless. All right, sorry, if I say your name wrong, Isirack from Brampton. Oh, that’s pretty close to us. Very close. Yeah, I’m in Toronto.

Norman  49:17  

I grew up actually, I went to school in Brampton, which is kind of interesting. Yeah. 

Kelsey 49:23

Okay. 

Norman 49:24

It was not interesting to anybody else.

Kelsey 49:27  

All right. We are at the very end. So if there’s one thing from Simon, so you’re using super URLs with blogs?

Travis 49:33  

I don’t believe in super URLs anymore. They don’t work directly. So super URLs actually don’t work on Apple devices. We actually learned that. So we did use super URLs about a year ago and then what was happening is my team was checking the links because after they make the blog, they check the links and I’d be like yeah, it works fine for me. It’s working fine for me and then half my team wasn’t, it wasn’t fine for them and we’re like, Okay, what is happening here? Like, why isn’t it working for you guys, but why is it working for us and we have android devices and PCs and then to my team members have all Apple products and so we realized that on Apple devices, super URLs were not working anymore and so what was happening is, they were going over to the super URL, and then other people’s products were showing up and so we now go direct only.

Norman  50:21  

Okay, I’ve got a question about that. So you’ve got the direct only link. Now, are you, let’s say it’s eye hydration. Are you embedding the link into that keyword? 

Travis 50:28

No. 

Norman 50:29

Would you just put on a raw link?

Travis 50:40  

Every single little thing like that is very helpful. I do agree with it. But at the end of the day, Amazon’s going to catch on to everything and so our goal is to produce whenever we produce a blog post, or a video, is to help produce two years down the line and so when we were doing all the super URLs and everything, we had to change them all the time, because Amazon would change something. But now that we have 300 blog posts, it takes like a full week to change all those links and so what we did is we’re just like, let’s just go direct and see what happens. When we switch to direct our sales, like doubled, our raw ads went up as a result of that and so, like everything improved, as a result of just going direct without any tricky links or anything like that.

Norman  51:26  

So in press releases, we tell people that first paragraph, your second line, under your first paragraph, Learn more at www.amazon.com/dpasin. Is that what you’re doing?

Travis 51:45  

Yeah, that’s it. That’s the link that we’re using.

Norman  51:48  

Okay. So we are telling people the right thing to do with press releases.

Travis 51:55  

I’m not saying I’m right, I’m just saying the easiest link to use, and it never changes. 

Norman  52:02  

But it’s so simple. It’s a raw link that’ll go back and like you said, you never have to change it. So yeah, we just like doing that. We like doing that in blogs as well. Just using that direct back over. Don’t have to worry about it. Okay, oh, I see something else. What else and you have to go fairly soon, sir. 

Kelsey 52:20  

So I think maybe we can answer this in the group to save time on this.

Norman  52:28  

Most throw it up there. 

Kelsey 52:30  

Okay, we’ll see. I’ve been selling on Amazon for six months. I did about 40,000. But for some reason, they’re saying I have two accounts, which I don’t and they blocked my account. What can I do? Any good advice, please?

Travis 52:43  

Yeah, I could give my two cents. You’ve been linked to accounts somehow in the past and it’s just a matter of getting that cleaned up and admitting to it, maybe you helped a friend start an account, maybe you were at Norm’s house and you guys both logged in at the same time, you’re on the same Wi Fi with the same IP address. There’s so many different things that can cause this to happen. It’s all about being honest with Amazon and not trying to fight them, come at them in a polite manner and hire an attorney if you’re worried about it. Like we have an attorney on staff, not daft but retainer that we use for these things because it’s worth it. I mean, it’s worth it to pay an attorney to really take care of this for you. The crazy thing is I do have two accounts and it’s because I bought one. I bought another brand. So we have two accounts. Before we bought that brand, we let Amazon know that we were buying this brand, we’re going to have two accounts for a while, we’re trying to shut down and phase out the one to bring it into the other as because we bought this company and you’re not allowed to buy Seller Central accounts. But they had so much inventory that we’re trying to get rid of the inventory. So this is actually something that makes me nervous going into the holiday season because I’ve heard about people doing this, but we have an attorney ready with a letter ready and then we have pretty much put all the tools in place to make sure that this wouldn’t happen. But in true Amazon fashion, it could always happen

Norman  54:08  

Two Saturdays ago, they laid down the law on if you had old accounts that were linked to, if you had an account that was suspended and you opened up another one, and you tried to reopen that ASIN or to create a secondary ASIN, they closed 10s of thousands of accounts not last Saturday, two Saturdays ago. So that might be something to take a look at too. But anyways, Travis, thank you for coming on. I know that we’ve got a giveaway. Why don’t you tell everybody about what your generous offer is?

Travis 54:45  

Yeah. So I don’t know how you guys are giving it away. But we’re gonna give away an Amazon PPC consultation. So that’s what my business partner and I do. We have an agency called the Profitable Pineapple Ad Agency, that profitablepineapple.com, we have a free course there that you can take at any time. But I’m also going to give away a paid consultation, which I usually charge about $1,000 for so we’d love to give that away to your audience.

Norman  55:10  

Okay, very good. Kelsey, how can somebody claim that?

Kelsey 55:15  

Alright. Well, we can try the tagging method this time. So the first person that says, I love Travis and takes two people in the comments, gets the prize. So I love Travis, and take two people.

Travis 55:33  

Cool. Orange glasses please.

Kelsey 55:34  

All right.

Norman  55:37  

That’s it. That’ll be the giveaway, the orange glasses. Okay, and how do people get a hold of you?

Travis  55:44  

Yeah, Facebook group is easiest way to interact with me. As we talked about the whole show. My Facebook group is called Amazon PPC Pros. Amazon PPC pros, it’s also my YouTube channel. So you can subscribe there. That’s the group we just started a year ago. So only about three. We’re about 4500 now subscribers on email lists group and YouTube channel. So starting to grow that and that’s a lot of fun. So Amazon PPC Pros is the easiest way to find that and that’s on Facebook.

Norman  56:13  

Okay, very good and Kelsey, you’ll get back to the winner and over to Travis.

Kelsey 56:20  

Yeah, yeah, I’ll message you, Travis. 

Travis 56:23

Sounds good.

Kelsey 56:24

We know you have to go. So thank you for having us on or for coming on the show and yeah, we have a couple or I’m not sure if we can see it on stream yard. He says, Travis, I think you need to take two people. Still. Oh, Jordan. Looks like we have a winner.

Norman  56:41  

Oh, there we go. Okay.

Travis  56:43  

One of my clients is on here too. So that’s pretty cool.

Norman  56:45  

Oh, fantastic. All right. We’ll let you go. I know you’ve got a call in just a minute or two. Thank you for the generous offer. Yeah, thank you for being on. It was great having you and we’ve got to get you back on and talk about all sorts of other things.

Travis 57:01  

Yeah. Sounds great. Norm, Kelsey, thanks for having me on.

Norman  57:03  

All right, Travis. We’ll see you later. 

Travis 57:05

See ya. 

Norman 57:08

Okay, so Jordan. Congratulations

Kelsey 57:13  

Yeah, I’m just gonna check. Make sure there wasn’t a mixup. I think we’re good.

Norman  57:24  

Okay. If there is any mix up just blame Kelsey.

Kelsey 57:28  

Yep. But it looks like we have a winner.

Norman  57:31  

Okay, very good. Oh, Marina was on today too and Tammy and Herb, oh man there is a bunch of people. So anyways, everybody. Thank you for joining us today. Travis is absolutely awesome. We had a whole bunch of other questions about influencers as well like turning these followers into influencers, but we’ll talk to him more about that the next time he comes on. But anyways, Kels do your job.

Kelsey 58:03  

Yes. If you haven’t yet, please like this episode and also we can talk about Facebook groups so much in this episode. Yes. Like a smash that like button. But really move on over, ring the bell. Yes. Anything. But move on over to the Facebook group after hearing all of this, we might be making some changes, probably. But even streaming from the Facebook group or? I’m not sure we’ll think about it. But, yeah, so there’s going to be lots of stuff happening. I know Norm is busy all the time, but he does reply to the comments. If you have any Amazon questions, eCommerce questions, this is a place where you can go and get advice, and maybe. 

Norman 58:52

Even the experts. 

Kelsey 58:53

Yeah, so Dr. Travis is going to be here. He just joined the group. So if you have a question for him, go on over and ask him. It’s okay. We’re totally fine with you posting in the group. As long as it’s content driven. You want to give back or you have a question, just no spam business stuff. But yeah, and Jordan, I will contact you or Jordan if you can email me at k@lunchwithnorm.com. I will get you in contact with Travis and then you guys can figure out a time.

Norman  59:30  

Okay, so Kelsey. Oh, who’s gonna be on Wednesday?

Kelsey 59:35  

Wednesday, we have John Li from Pickfu.

Norman  59:38  

Co-founder. Co-founder of Pickfu Okay, great. That should be interesting.

Kelsey 59:42  

Yeah. So that’s gonna be all about split testing and optimizing your Amazon listings.

Norman  59:51  

Yeah, that’ll be very interesting. Just using Pickfu is just so helpful. Sometimes I know that I’ve done this with images that I think this is going to kill it and it’s a complete opposite from what I think. So, yeah, anyways, we’ll talk more about that.

Kelsey 1:00:12  

Yeah, but the episode is at 12pm, Eastern same time as it was today. You can find if you’re a new listener, it’s every Monday, Wednesday, Friday. We have new guests on. Yep, same time, same place right here on the channel. Depending where you’re watching from, you can go over to the Norman Farrar a.k.a The Beard Guy, official Facebook page, and join our group Lunch with Norm Amazon FBA & eCommerce collective for the Facebook group.

Norman  1:00:43  

So you messed me up? Because I’m supposed to say Monday, Wednesday, Friday. I’m gonna do it anyway. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Alright. So thank you, everybody, for tuning in today. I hope you enjoyed it. Travis, is just an incredible wealth of knowledge. So check it out. He’s part of our group. But tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Friday at noon, Eastern Standard Time. That’s the line that Kelsey stole from me and thank you, everybody for watching today. Enjoy the rest of your day and see you next episode.