#111: Keyword Research with Serious Sellers

Episode: 111

Title: Norman Farrar Introduces Bradley Sutton, Director of Training & Chief Evangelist at Helium 10 and Host of Serious Sellers Podcast.

Subtitle: What Purpose of Keyword Research?

Final Show Link: https://lunchwithnorm.com/episode-111-keyword-research-with-serious-sellers-w-bradley-sutton/+ 

In this episode of Lunch With Norm…, Norman Farrar introduces Bradley Sutton, Director of Training & Chief Evangelist at Helium 10 and Host of Serious Sellers Podcast.

Bradley helps hundreds of thousands of Amazon sellers, beginner to 9-figure sellers, achieve their business dreams. In this episode, he dives into the do’s the don’ts and everything in between when developing a keyword strategy.

If you are a new listener to Lunch With Norm… we would love to hear from you. Please visit our Facebook Page and join in on episode discussion or simply let us know what you think of the episode!

In this episode, we discuss:

• 3:23 : Bradley’s Background
• 10:11 : General Keyword Research
• 11:31 : The Purpose of Keyword Research
• 15:56 : Competitive Analysis To Find Keywords
• 21:56 : Common Mistakes in Keyword Research and Product Listing
• 26:33 : Setting Up Your Product Listing
• 30:43 : Q & A With Brandley
• 31:55 : Writing Bullet Points
• 34:23 : Restricted Keywords
• 43:46 : Putting Brand Name In The Beginning
• 45:30 : Pick One Tool
• 48:33 : Keyword Research For A Repurposed Product
• 1:01:20 : Keyword Selection For A New Product
• 1:03:16 : Selling A Unique Product On Amazon

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Explore these Resources

In this episode, we mentioned the following resources:

• Etsy
• Pinterest
• PickFu
• Roadmaster
• Stream Yard
• The Serious Sellers Podcast
• Clubhouse
• Kickstarter
• Indiegogo 
• Wheel Of Names
• https://www.instagram.com/h10bradley/
• https://www.helium10.com/

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normanfarrar.com

Norman  0:02  

Hey everybody, it’s Norman Farrar a.k.a The Beard Guy here and welcome to another Lunch with Norm, The Rise of the Micro Brands.

Norman  0:20  

Well, it’s Helium 10 Week. I thought I’d wear my Helium 10 swag. Today we’re going to be having Director of Training and host of The Serious Seller podcast, Bradley Sutton. So we’re going to be diving deep into keyword research, the do’s, the don’ts and everything in between. So Kelsey, where are you sir?

Kelsey 0:40  

Hello.

Norman  0:41  

What is that you’re wearing?

Kelsey 0:43  

It’s my fluffy sweater. It’s freezing here. We had some issues, again at the apartment, but we got around it, we adopted and now I got this nice sweater. 

Norman  0:54  

If you came back home once in a while, you could stay over here and you wouldn’t have to wear that.

Kelsey 1:00  

It’s next weekend. 

Norman  1:01  

We’re toasty warm here.

Kelsey 1:02  

Yeah.

Norman  1:04  

That’s next weekend. Okay. All right. Are we doing a podcast when you’re back here? Same room?

Norman  1:10  

Same room. That’d be cool. There we go. Alright, so what are we gonna do? Are you gonna do your job today? Are we gonna be liking, or smashing or what is that smashing? No liking the smashes? What were you saying last time?

Kelsey 1:24  

Yeah, I want to go back to it.

Norman  1:27  

You don’t want to think about that. Okay, what are people supposed to do?

Kelsey 1:29  

Okay, smash those like buttons. Get the word out about this podcast. Tag your friends. We’ve got an awesome giveaway today. I think you guys are gonna really like this one. Yeah. But before that, head over to the Lunch with Norm Facebook group. That is Lunch with Norm Amazon FBA and eCommerce Collective. That’s where all the fun stuff is and yeah, if you’re looking for highlights, anything, full episodes, go over to our YouTube page. It’s Norman Farrar. That’s where everything is. Yes, Marina. I’m very cozy. Thank you and I think that’s pretty much it except the Clubhouse. We have our weekly Clubhouse on Mondays at 1:30pm, Eastern time. So go head over there on Mondays. The event tab is available in the Facebook group right now. So the link is there. You can RSVP if you want if you don’t want to forget about it. But yeah, i think that’s it.

Norman  2:27  

Okay, so I think it’s gonna be a real awesome podcast. So if you do know any other people that want to listen to about keyword research, the do’s and the don’ts, please tag them, get them in and also, by the way, if you tag two people, you will be entered it twice into our giveaway today, and we’ll get into that in a second. But sit back, relax, grab that cup of coffee. Enjoy the show. Welcome, Mr. Sutton.

Bradley 2:54  

Lo Hello. Hello.

Norman  2:56  

How are you sir?

Bradley2:57  

I’m doing just delightful. 

Norman  3:01  

Oh, that’s good. I thought you were gonna start diving in zumba into the song.

Bradley 3:07  

That’s a really cool intro you have there. I love it.

Norman  3:11  

You do? Oh, great. In case people don’t know you, can you give us a little bit? Well, a little bit of background about what you’re doing and what you’re doing over at Helium 10?

Bradley 3:23  

Yeah, so my position changes. That’s the one cool thing about Helium 10. They allow you to kind of grow into different roles, but currently, it’s the Director of Training and chief evangelist. No, it doesn’t have anything to do with religion, even though that’s what usually people think about evangelists but do you know the origin of that term Norm?

Norman  3:45  

I do not. What is it?

Bradley 3:46  

So I guess Guy Kawasaki worked for Apple, or while he was the first one to kind of mainstream that is kind of like, it’s, uh something that it’s not necessarily brand ambassador, but it’s like when you’re out there, doing podcasts or something, or just trying to get the word out there about your company whether it’s through the printed word or whether it’s through video or audio, then you’re kind of like evangelizing for your brand so that’s what like he was the first mainstream person to to have that title, he even wrote a book all about, it’s on Audible I listened to it’s pretty interesting. But that’s that’s the origin of it. So even Karen Thomas here and of course, Marcus. Marcus, who’s always next to you, luxury level, or how luxurious the beard is. But they’re both now brand evangelists as well as I was like, at first when they told me I was like, evangelists, what in the world. Like that’s weird. But now I guess it makes sense. But anyways, yeah, that’s that’s my position here and I do the training videos and I ran all the case studies and yeah I’ve worked here. It’s hard to believe it’s coming up on three years before then, I was a consultant for Amazon sellers. I was on the other side of the aisle here and launched over 400 products and yeah, just been in this Amazon space not as long as some about six, seven years now, but I love it. I don’t see myself ever getting out of this space.

Norman  5:18  

Yeah, I was watching wicked tuna. Something to do and they’re complaining and Oh, like a horrible season and it just kind of I thought about the world in general and how awful it is that people were losing jobs, people going bankrupt and sometimes you feel really guilty, because over the last year, a lot of Amazon sellers or eCom sellers or service providers have exploded in a good way. 

Bradley 5:54  

I mean, not the one big thing I think you see in 2020 and 2021, that I don’t know, if anybody could have predicted. There’s some things that you can kind of predict, like what, when COVID started, and everybody started buying online, you could probably say, Oh, man, there might be some inventory restrictions, because Amazon warehouses are going to be full or you might have been able to predict that things that you do at home are gonna are gonna boom, or there’s gonna be more third party sellers, you can make easy predictions like that. But the one thing that has really struck me is the aggregators, like Thrasio, and Perch and things like that, it’s like, they’re like taking over the world. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. I said, that’s an amazing thing. It makes so much sense. But it’s like, that just seemed to come out of nowhere. 2018, you heard about all, maybe I’ll sell my bread, I remember, the big news is like 2019, maybe your 2018, it was a supplement company, xiaolin nutrition and it was like big news. Xiaolin nutrition sold for $20 million and that was just like, everybody was just like, shocked and I was like, Wow, that’s so amazing. They’re just like a third party seller. But now, your transactions like that are happening every day of the week yeah, at some of these companies. I think that that’s something that seems to be big news now.

Norman  7:14  

Remember, oh, I don’t know if it was 2013. Around that time, there was a debate going on whether Amazon stores or brands through Amazon would even sell. There were people back then looking at flipping their business, but they’re getting nothing. It wasn’t that great. But now you’ve taken a look at it, if you do it right and you optimize your listing properly, you optimize your business properly, Man, you can make a ton of cash fairly quickly. That’s the thing about this. Another reason why I love the world that I’m in is that you don’t have to wait 10 years, you can start on Amazon or an eCommerce platform and you get out in 18 months, maybe 24 months, but still in two years go from zero to nothing. Now that’s fantastic. But today, we have a special giveaway that you don’t do. You never do this, Well, if you do, it’s very rare. Because I’ve never heard you do this. The giveaway today, why don’t you announce it?

Bradley 8:22  

Yeah, so we’re gonna do a special giveaway. We don’t even give this out. When we do webinars hardly, actually, I don’t think we’ve ever done this on a webinar. But we’re gonna give away a one on one consultation with me. I like meeting with people. But sometimes when it’s like in group settings like, whether it’s at a conference or even just on a group Zoom, people are kind of reluctant to really talk about what they’re doing or show their product or things but in a one on one setting, I’m not going to share your stuff or we’re not going to broadcast it live. So we’re gonna give away a one on one session with me and then you can feel free to talk about anything you want. I’ll look at your listing and I’ll look at your product ideal. I’ll give you my sourcing agent. I mean, no holds barred. Purely for you, Norm.

Norman  9:09  

That sounds fantastic. So guess what the hashtag is gonna be. I love Bradley. #I love Bradley. You wanted I want, but I’m gonna throw I love Bradley in there. Anyways, feel free to hashtag if you want to just say I want Bradley. I understand. But anyway. Okay, so I’m sure we’re gonna get a ton of people looking at that. Because again, when you mentioned that, I thought that was really special. Thank you very much.

Kelsey 9:40  

If you tag what was it, two people? You get an extra vote too. So yeah.

Norman  9:46  

Very good. All right, let’s dig into this. This is the first for me. I get to talk to you. Usually it’s the other way around. So this is kind of cool. Alright, so we’re gonna be talking about keyword research and kind of digging into and the do’s and the don’ts and like I said everything in between. So why don’t we talk about just general keyword research right now? What would you recommend? What’s your style of keyword research?

Bradley 10:11  

Yeah. So it’s important that people understand what they’re doing before they get into keyword research, or what’s the point of what they’re doing. This has nothing to do with Helium 10, or any software tool. It’s just a conceptual thing. I mean, because tools like Cerebro and Helium 10, they didn’t exist three, four years ago. It’s not like people didn’t do keyword research. Eight years ago, no tools listed people were still figuring out what keywords to put in their listings. So it’s to get you guys to understand the concept and the concept is at the end of the day, this is my big thing I especially focused on last year in trains, is people need to understand the buying process on Amazon, so like you, Norm, do you buy things up there on Amazon? Do you have other websites you use or what do you use? 

Norman 10:59

To buy products? 

Bradley 11:00

Buy products. Yes. 

Norman  11:00  

I’m probably 90% Amazon.

Bradley 11:02  

Okay, so do you remember any of the last things that you bought?

Norman  11:05  

They just arrived. I bought your mic.

Bradley 11:10  

Oh, the nano? The Yeti?

Norman  11:11  

Oh, I thought that was a Shure.

Bradley 11:15  

Oh the Shure. Yeah, that camera looks like a Yeti right there.

Norman  11:20  

It is a Yeti. I’m replacing it. Kelsey is getting this. I’m getting the Shure.

Bradley 11:24  

Oh yeah. Are you sure about that?

Norman 11:30

I’m pretty sure. 

Bradley 11:31

You actually bring up a good point, one of the last things a few months ago, I bought two was a microphone and so the whole buying process for you, a need comes up. So for you, your need was, you know what my microphone sounds good. But I think it can sound a little bit better, or I have FOMO. Because I see everybody has these Shure microphones or whatever it was, there was a need that came up in your mind and no matter if you know the exact brand, or the exact product that you want, or you’re not sure. An image comes up in your mind of what you think it might look like, how much it might cost, what the functions are, these things all come up in your head when you have a need and then when it’s time to go by, it doesn’t like I said, it doesn’t matter if you knew the name of the product or not, you have to translate that need or that image in your head into a keyword. Now, sometimes if it’s an exact microphone, like the Shure, you’re going to type in s h u r e microphone, it’s a keyword, but maybe you don’t know, maybe it’s the best microphone for podcasting. All right, whatever it is, we’re not at the technology level yet where we can just transfer some image in our head into an Amazon search. So no matter what, you have got to translate your need into a keyword and the important thing is that everybody’s different. You could have one product, and you could have 100 people and there might be at least 50 to 75 different ways that people are going to describe that product to search for it. So at the end of the day, if you can take nothing else from this episode here is just remember, the purpose of keyword research is you are trying to identify all of the potential keywords that your target audience could possibly use to look for, and buy your product and the mistake that a lot of Amazon sellers make is they think they know their product really well and you should know your product really well. But they just rely on their own knowledge, like Alright, this microphone is going to be a podcast mic and maybe some people might call this expensive podcast mic or something like that and they just rely on their own knowledge. But you have to understand that the majority of people probably don’t search like you. If you think you’re a professional searcher great, but I guarantee you those people who use very strange terms even other language terms and so that’s the goal of keyword research is Hey, what are all the possible ways that somebody could be who would be looking for a product like mine would use to describe it, because I got to get those in my listing, so that I can at least show up in the search results.

Norman  14:12  

So how do you get to that point? Like, for example, bully sticks. I know bully sticks, I thought I knew bully sticks, like the back of my hand and then for me, I started looking at competitors and I actually extracted this from using Helium 10s tool. What the heck is a pizzle but it’s another name for a bully stick and it turned out to be a really nice, watch Kevin King is going to be doing and he’s going to hear this. But we will sell bully sticks. But anyways, pizzle turned out to be a really great keyword for us. Not a ton of sales. But we were able to extract those sales that nobody else was targeting and was no competitors on it. Pizzle who would have thought?

Bradley 14:59  

Yeah and there’s always things like that that happen and even if you do the best keyword research, it’s not the end of the day. Keyword research is an ongoing thing. Your PPC, if you have auto and broad campaigns going, those are gonna discover even other keywords that you’re like this has nothing, let me know in the comments guys, how many of you guys have have, you’ve been selling on Amazon for a while, and you take a look at your auto campaign search reports and you’re looking at keywords that you actually got conversions for, not only did you get an impression for but somebody saw that, they clicked on they bought and you’re like, What in the world? Why in the world? Would somebody buy my product after searching for this, but that’s the beauty and then later on, it’s like, Okay, well, maybe I need to put that keyword in my listing to see even optimize further for it.

Norman  15:47  

Without using the app, how do you do competitive analysis to find these different keywords?

Bradley 15:56  

Well, there’s different ways. So the first way like, let’s say somebody didn’t have Helium 10, or any other tool is the way that people did it back in the day is they would just start type, you could probably know what the main keyword is, or at least the root word is almost always. So people who don’t have tools use, people just use the autocomplete they could use the autocomplete, they’re on Amazon, and something new that has come up again, that doesn’t require the use of a tool, is you type in the main keywords like coffin shelf on Amazon, you scroll all the way to the bottom, and that usually is better than autocomplete. It gives you like five related keywords that according to whatever Amazon is using for their algorithm, these are like the keywords that if somebody searched coffin shelf, either before this, or after this, they also search these other keywords and there’s stuff that doesn’t come up in autocomplete, because there’s sometimes completely different words, if you type in coffin shelf, the only things that come up in autocomplete are the stuff that start with like coffin shelf. But if you go all the way to the bottom, you’ll see Gothic decor or things like that, that would never come up in autocomplete. So that’s a great way to get some good keywords. Another thing that you could do, if you’re not using a tool is if you have Brand Registry, and I highly suggest to everybody, even if they’re just getting started, unless you’re just looking for the next fad like fidget spinner or something like that, well, maybe you don’t need groundworks. But I would always suggest getting Brand Registry so you can get brand analytics, because you can at least see for your competitors, which ones that they’re dominating the clicks on, and if they’re getting purchases from there. So that’s another great way. For me personally, I launched 40 products last year, as case studies and a lot of these products, I have a unique way of doing product research and I kind of go against the norm, no pun intended. But what I do is I like getting into niches like the coffin shelf, where there is zero competition, and my ceiling is kind of capped, because these things are selling like 5,6,7 units a day. But for me, it’s a great sandbox for doing my case studies because I’m able to just do whatever I want, because there’s no competition. So the way that I get my ideas is from Etsy and Pinterest a lot. 

Norman  18:19  

So you’re talking about your project x.

Bradley 18:23  

Project X is one but that’s just two products. I did another 35 products last year using the same methodology for Project X. Yeah, where we find stuff that’s trending off of Amazon and so if you find something that’s trending on Etsy, and that’s what you’re going through, by definition using this method, I can’t use Helium 10 for my keyword research because there’s no competition on Amazon that exists sure I can look at the search volume and I do look at the search volume and things like that there. But as far as what are the keywords that drive sales? Well, your number one way of knowing that you don’t have because you can’t look at any competitors whether you’re talking brand analytics or Helium 10 to see so this is what I do. If they’re selling well on Etsy, all I need is one or two or three. I go on Etsy and there’s this little trick I use to see what are the popular products I first can click on their sales. Not everybody on Etsy knows how to hide this, like more than 50% of sellers on Etsy don’t even know that all of their sales are exposed to the world. It’s a certain feature. Yeah, it’s a certain feature that you have to use to hide it like for example if you guys go to the Project X Etsy store, type in how cool is that, I think that’s what it’s under or coffin shelf and find our coffin shelf and you see our store name is how cool is that, you click on the store name and once you get to our storefront, everybody has this it says number of sales. Now what everybody doesn’t have is the ability to click on it so we left it open. We don’t care if people see how many sales we’re making but most sellers are like that. They don’t even know that they can turn that off. But if you click on that, that is a real time tally of every single one of that Etsy store sales since the beginning of time. So you keep like the following every day and know which products that they’re selling. So anyway, you’ll know if this is a hot selling product. There’s obviously no x-ray Helium 10 x-ray yet for Etsy, so that’s like a way to know the sale. So then you look at that, what’s the popular product and then when you look, click on the page, of course look at their title, just things that you would do on Amazon, what’s the main keyword they’re doing there. But if you scroll to the bottom of the page, there’s this thing that says related keywords and a lot of people are under the mistaken assumption that that’s like some Etsy algorithm or something, kind of like similar to Amazon, at the bottom of the search page where it gives other other words, no, those are the words that the Etsy seller has highlighted as the most important words to their listing. In the back end of an Etsy listing, it asks them to put their most important tags, right? So it’s kind of like the search terms in an Amazon listing that then nobody would ever see. But you can actually say, all right, here are the 12 keywords that this Etsy seller has tagged as their most important keywords and so boom, there’s a good starting point there. So all of these guys, without the use of Helium 10, or any tool, just stuff that anybody can do right now.

Norman  21:14  

That’s crazy. I had no idea about that. I do know that a lot of people are having success with Etsy right now. But another just a quick tip on the autofill, one of the things that I know that we do is that before we start typing, we hit the spacebar, and then type in the name, and then you’ll have a bunch of long tails that come down, which helps us out when we’re doing long tail rebates, or if we’re doing some sort of giveaway or search, find, and buy. Okay, so let’s talk about mistakes. What are people doing that are causing them to either lose sales or just basic mistakes?

Bradley 21:56  

Mistakes? I mean, some people might think these are just boneheaded or simple, but I mean, I’ve seen experienced sellers do it. So again, the one thing we already mentioned is making sure that you’re not just relying on your own knowledge to put keywords. The other thing is, you might have the best keyword research ever and then you don’t actually put them in your listing. What in the world are you like? You did all this research, and then you just assume that Amazon is going to index you for this keyword. Another mistake that some people do is not putting their most important keywords in phrase form and the most important keywords, usually, it’s not that many you’ll get a good 80% of your sales, if not more from, like 10-15 keywords. Now, you still don’t want to neglect all the other hundreds of potential keywords, but the big majority of your sales is going to come from a core number of keywords and it’s important to have those in phrase form, because when you first start your listing, it’s going to help you once you get interaction with those keywords, you’re going to be able to rank a lot faster for it, as opposed to if Amazon’s just piecing together these phrases from different parts in your listening like, if the words is hydrolyzed collagen peptides, you got collagen in your title, hydrolyzing in your bullet points and peptides in description. Sure, you’ll be indexed for it. But Amazon might not view you as very relevant because that keyword’s not in phrase form. So that’s important. Another thing that people make a mistake on is they think keyword research stops once your listing is live, like I’m good, I’m good. A perfect example of this I saw was this trending product, and I think it actually might have turned out to be an adult product, but whatever it was, it was something that just got invented, like three years ago, right? So at the time, they did what they were supposed to do, and they looked at their initial keyword research and the number one keyword was blank, blank, whatever this product was. If I remember the word I probably couldn’t even say it out loud, but blank blank for beginners. It was something like 15,000 keywords and then they’re just the core keyword, the blank blank part was like 5000 because it was some new trend or something right? So they did that and they kept going and they came to me a year later like man my sales keep going down and down and down. I was like, well have you have you looked at the keywords? Because things change as far as transition and they said no, so when we looked at it again that that blank blank for beginners was was now only like maybe 2000 search volume and then all these other keywords had come up like the main keyword now all of a sudden that was a number one one and then there’s these new ways that people were using this product and these develop or these made other keywords and those are all had search or some of those they didn’t even have in their listing. So I’m not saying Hey guys do keyword research every single week and redo your listing. No, you actually shouldn’t do that. That’s going to mess up your listing, sometimes that screws up the Amazon algorithm but  every few months, do a deep dive into your keyword research. Look at what you’re converting for. Look at what your competitors are converting and I guarantee every single time you do that, there’s probably going to be a couple keywords that you didn’t even realize were relevant to your listening that maybe have just popped up and then yeah, go ahead and stick those in your listing, just make sure when you do that, you’re not taking away things that are important for your listing, like maybe your number one keyword is his coffin shelf and like, if I’m gonna take that off and replace it with a gothic decor or something you don’t want to deindex you for anything but but definitely add keywords down the line, that are relevant for your listing and don’t make that mistake that other sellers do, where they think up the journey is over once my listing’s live.

Norman  25:40  

So I’ve got to ask you about setting up your listing. So I’ve heard everything 20-30 different styles of setting up your listing. But I’ve heard recently that never repeat a keyword. Now I heard this in the past, I’m hearing it a lot more now. Short titles, shorter bullets, relevant keywords in the search terms. Never repeat a keyword and your main keyword phrase would be in your title, of course. But then I’ve heard people say, and this is the way it was for the last two years is to repeat the different keyword phrases, have different keyword phrases throughout your listing, throughout the back end in subject matter, which is now taken away for most categories. What do you suggest? What have you seen?

Bradley 26:33  

I still think, at least in the beginning, you should repeat those main phrases because again, in that the first couple months of a listing, you’re you’re fighting with the algorithm to try and make sure that they know you’re relevant for it and so, I mean, just naturally keywords are gonna be repeated. I mean, if you have a collagen peptides listing, it’s impossible to only have collagen peptides in your listing once. I mean, your listing is gonna look pretty weird. If it’s only there, once it’s just natural that, Hey collagen peptides is in the title and then down here is like our collagen peptides comes from pasteurized, whatever, cows, whatever the heck. I mean, it would be weird if you didn’t have collagen peptides more than one. So that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Now, what happens is, like, I think as the listing matures, you don’t have to have it repeated, because if you’re already ranking on the top of page one, theoretically speaking you remove one of them, it’s not going to make a big deal. Amazon gives conflicting information and that’s why people get confused. Like, if anybody has brand analytics, and I’m sorry, Brand Registry, and you have access to this feature called search term optimization and that’s like something that you can control your backend search terms from your Brand Registry dashboard and it’s actually interesting. First of all, there’s just a side note, if anybody has Brand Registry, use that to do your search terms, because you get about 40 more characters, because in the regular listing, you only get up to what 249 or 250 characters you can do. But in that part of editing it, it doesn’t count the spaces. So on average, you’ll get another 40 to 50 characters of real estate that you can put into your search terms. But what that actually will tell you is like, Hey, don’t put this keyword here, because you’ve already got it somewhere else in your listing. Now again, I say ignore that in the beginning, but later on, if you did have those duplicates, you can probably go ahead and remove it from the search terms, just like it’s telling you but , even now if you were to message, I even tested this a couple months ago where it took me a few times to get a rep to say it, but they still say it some of them where I had a keyword on my listing and it wasn’t really not even in the top seven pages wasn’t ranking at all. I just had I opened up a case and I’m like, Hey I’m not really showing up for this keyword. I know I’m indexed for it. What advice can you give me and they’ll say, Do you have it in your search terms? I said no and they’ll go ahead and add it there. I mean, they knew I had it in the rest of my listing, but they’re like, go ahead and add it. In other words, duplicate that keyword and then sure enough, it put me to like page six or page seven. Yeah, I’m not gonna get any sales rep. But it just shows algorithmically that Amazon still looks at sometimes duplication for whatever relevancy thing that they’re doing. So I would say yes, duplicate especially in the beginning, but as the listing gets older, it does not become as critical for you to do that. 

Norman  29:40  

Very good. Hey guys, if you’re liking what you’re hearing, please like Kelsey says, like the smashes. Hit the subscribe, invite people over and I just wanted to again, just let you know what the giveaway is today. Bradley is gonna be doing a one on one session, which he doesn’t do. So it’s one on one if you like what you’re hearing, it’s # I love Bradley. You’ll get a second vote if you tag two more people, how’s that? Alright, and did I say that okay Kels?

Kelsey 30:22  

I’ll also just throw in another thing, if you share the video out, you’ll get another two votes. So there you go.

Norman  30:30  

All right, all on Bradley’s time. Okay, now, let’s go back to some of the questions. I’ve seen a few coming through here. Kelsey, can you start throwing up some?

Kelsey 30:43  

Yeah, so the first question is from Dr. Koz, is it true less keywords on the back end of an Amazon listing would have more weight? I heard more often not to jam pack the keywords. Any thoughts?

Bradley 30:55  

I haven’t tested that. Recently. I mean, to me, it’s always been in this information, like what a year and a half ago actually leaked out of Amazon, where the search terms are second most important to the title. But if I have only 50 keywords in there, as opposed to 250, like does it have more weight? That’s an interesting case study. I’ve never seen anything out of Amazon or anything in my own studies that says one way. I try when possible to maximize it just because that real estate is so valuable and it’s not like, it’s not too much. Remember Norm remembers the days where even open up to 5000, 5000 characters you could do back there. But yeah, that’d be something interesting to test. But for now, I try to max it out.

Norman  31:39  

Based on that, what about the bullet points? Are you keeping to smaller bullet points with just more user engagement or benefit features and just very short? Or are you writing those 500 characters?

Bradley 31:55  

I never do the 500 characters and the reason is to me that’s not attractive, like if I’m looking as a buyer, and that’s one thing, again, talking about the mistakes that Amazon sellers make is that people sometimes think too much like sellers and not like buyers, and they think about oh algorithm and indexing and relevancy and all this stuff and they’re like, yeah, I gotta put as much as possible, because it’ll give me great juice, by the end of the day, that the Amazon algorithm that’s buying your product, it’s a normal person and if I see a listing, there’s like seven bullet points, and each one has five, I’m like, okay, this is too much to deal with. Let me go to the next listing, that’s like not attracted to me. So that’s the reason why I don’t do 500 in the bullet points. Now, back in the days they used to cap it at I think was like 1000. So like, you could go more than 1000 bullet points. But for indexing, sometimes if you go more than 1000, they wouldn’t index you. Now, I think that has changed. That’s another thing I haven’t tested. But as you mentioned, subject matter started going away for a lot of categories and in a lot of those categories that subject matter went away, you got added extra bullet points or like the ability to do up to like 1012 bullet points. Yeah and so, in my opinion, I can’t imagine that they still would have a 1000 character cap on indexing on the bullet points, because those are like 75 character bullet points if that was the case. So for me, it’s kind of like what I go by what Tomer Rabinovitch? Have you ever had him on the show? 

Norman 33:23

Oh yeah. 

Bradley 33:24

Tomer teaches something called looking at the niche theme and that’s like, look at what the others in your niche are? The successful ones, look at the structure of their listing, do they have long titles? You should go ahead and do a long title that obviously works. Do they have short titles? Do a short title, because that’s what seems to be more attractive to people. Same thing with the bullet points. Do they have long bullet points? Do they have short bullet points? Do they only have three bullet points? Do they have eight? Go with what is already proven to work in your niche and proven to be okay to your target market and that’s kind of like how I go about it as opposed to targeting just without looking at that just like some exact number of 300 characters or 100.

Norman  34:08  

Good point. Alright, Kels.

Kelsey 34:13  

A lot of questions coming through. Okay. Jeffrey Anderson. Bradley, do you know the list of restricted keywords not allowed to be used in a listing?

Bradley 34:23  

Yeah, that’s a great question. But the short answer is no. Amazon unfortunately hasn’t published it. I mean, you kind of know it’s like junk drug related keywords and some swear words and things like that, but I wish that Amazon would publish a full list. Another thing that people don’t realize is branded keywords as well are kind of forbidden keywords for if you don’t have that brand like I talked to a seller two years ago, put the word farts, fart or something like that and the listing that’s actually a branded term, and he got his listing suppressed for like, what somebody has that trademarked or somebody trademarked the word fart, but sure enough they did. So if you use a trademark, it doesn’t even have to be branded, it doesn’t have to be a brand. Obviously, all brands are almost all trademark, but just if somebody trademarked a word like, who knows isn’t LeBron James trying to trademark Tacos Tuesday or something like, if that goes through, theoretically speaking, then if somebody sees a Tacos Tuesday in an Amazon listing, that trademark owner can go and report that to Amazon, you could get removed. So just just drug related keywords, cuss words, and trademark terms, just try and stay away from those. But unfortunately, Amazon hasn’t done a list because actually, that’s 1000s of keywords.

Norman  35:45  

And there’s also we’ve run into this a lot with free, so non instead of free, the 100%, the guarantee, the satisfaction, I mean, there’s certain things that Amazon will just slap you with and the anti anti anti anti anti so with my clients we’ve been going through, it’s been crazy with antibacterial, anti this anything that could look like it’s PPE related, they’re getting suppressed, suspended. But anyways, Yeah, I agree. I wish that we could get something like that and also,

Bradley 36:25  

Then we build that into a tool and then we might be able to, like give you a notice, like, Hey, be careful.

Norman  36:31  

One of the things you can do, it’s not going to tell you right off the bat. But one of the things that you can do to help improve your ability to have the listing up is check out the style guide. Style guide is going to let you know, at least, like I see a lot of people breaking a lot of rules and it’s all just minor things. But how does that weigh against the guy that if two people have the exact same listing, and one listing is doing a bunch of minor TOS issues. I don’t know about you, but logically, I would think the other listing would be promoted before the other one that’s breaking minor TOS issues. Yeah, I’m not sure about that. But anyways, okay Kels, next.

Kelsey 37:19  

Okay, next one we have from Simon, let’s say those 75 keywords from those 100 people are being used by sellers. How does Amazon decide who wins?

Bradley 37:31  

Alright, so 75 keywords from those 100 people are being used? I mean, if we’re just talking about there are 100 sellers who are using the 75 same keywords and if you mean that by Amazon winning is who Amazon picks the winners who’s ranking towards the top or if you’re talking about PPC, those are different subjects. But let’s just assume that you’re talking about like, Hey, who’s Amazon going to prioritize in search results if everybody has the same keyword? Well, it’s who has more interactions on your listing from that keyword and we’re not only talking about purchases, I mean, Amazon, I mean, of course, purchases are the most important but there are so many different factors. I mean, Amazon’s even looking at things like, Alright, somebody search for this keyword, and they clicked on this listing and they spent a lot of time on this page, maybe they didn’t even buy, but Amazon is actually reading that kind of data, so its interactions with that keyword, because at the end of the day, we got to remember how does Amazon make money. Amazon makes money, either from a click because they saw a sponsored ad, or Amazon makes money from a purchase. Alright, so what they’re trying to do is they want to show the products either in sponsored ads, or organically as high as possible, the ones that give Amazon the best chance to make that money and so how do they know what’s going to give them the best chance of making money? It’s who’s made the money in the past for that for those keywords. So that’s how it kind of works. 

Norman  38:58  

Remember, when you’re ranking, let’s say, you’re one of those people that have those 75 keywords, and you’re ranking, and maybe a bunch of you are on page one, well, nobody can force anybody to click, if your listing sucks, nobody’s going to click on it. So check out that we talked about the Brady Bunch effect. Take your competitors, make sure that your listing looks good, the primary or your hero image looks the best or stands out equal to or better than your competitors.

Kelsey 39:34  

Okay, next question, does Helium 10 also use the keyword data from Google and other platforms? Or is it only the search data inside Amazon?

Bradley 39:42  

Well, if you’re talking about like the search volume and things like that, that’s based on Amazon searches. Now, we do actually have Google data in Helium 10. That’s in the Trendsetter app where you can kind of overlay Amazon BSR and then take a look at that keyword of how it looks on Google Trends. So in that sense, we have some Google data.

Kelsey 40:03  

Okay, from Manny. Can you explain in detail what the number in the CPR column in Cerebro refers to?

Bradley 40:11  

Sure. So the CPR number is basically a formula that Manny, your namesake Manny Coats came up with years ago of when people were doing discounted purchases based with two step URLs, in order to get to page one, approximately how many of those discounted purchases over eight days, you would need to give you the best chance to get to page one. A lot of people are using full price buys now and they’re using rebates and different things like that. So the number that’s actually needed is a lot less and you might be seeing a kind of big update on that over the next couple of months here on Lunch with Norm.

Kelsey 40:56  

All right, and Fatiha, a keyword with 4000 searches is my main keyword, should it be targeting this sort of launch or focus on smaller long tail keywords, then move up?

Bradley 41:08  

It depends. This is something that Tim Jordan talked about when we did Project X he called going for that big keyword the storming the castle and then he talked about the longer tail ones is like storming the beach. If you’re an invading army coming over water, you first go for the beach first, and then you storm the castle. Now, at the end of the day, there’s no one answer that answers everything, it depends on if you think you can organically convert, once you get to page one. So for example, if I was trying to do collagen peptides, where everybody’s got a million reviews, sure, I bet I can get to page one within one week using different launch methods. But I guarantee you, I’m not going to stay on page one, because once I get to page one, my listing is ugly compared to everything else with a lot of reviews and a lot of history and things like that, I’m going to fall off of page one, because my conversion is going to be bad. But if you’re in some kind of niche, like with the coffin shelf, our main keyword was coffin shelf, it was like 10,000 search volume at the time, we were absolutely just fine going after that right off the bat, because we knew there were so few coffin shelves on there, or the competition was so bad, or their price was all like double ours or whatever that we knew without even any reviews, all we need to do is get to page one, and we’re going to get the organic conversions right away. So you got that might be the case with you Fatiha or might be something else. So you just have to take a look at the competition, and then ask yourself, Hey, if I got to page one, would I convert and here’s the thing that you can do, too. Don’t just go with what you think. Pull your family members, if they don’t know what your brand is, like, Hey, which of these would you get? Or do a PickFu, take two or three of the top listings there on page one and then put like a thumbnail of yours without reviews and then say Hey, if you if you search for this keyword, which one of these would you buy and why and then if 98% of people say the other ones, and then they say because this one has no reviews, and I would trust this one more or whatever, well then you’ll maybe you should wait to get some reviews before you make that push to get that one to page one.

Norman  43:22  

Great.

Kelsey 43:23  

Okay, awesome. Also, if you guys haven’t done it yet, please like this video and yeah, if you did share the video, please just comment done. Sometimes in privacy settings, we can’t see who actually shows the video. But once you do that, you’ll get an extra two votes. Let’s see this is from Gideon, what is your thought about the brand name and the title should have been the end or in the beginning?

Bradley 43:46  

Amazon wants it in the beginning. So that’s just like, if you don’t put it in there, it’s not like an automatic suspension if you put it at the end it’s not like an automatic suspension or suppression or anything like that but I have seen more and more people get slapped on the wrist by not putting it at the beginning and what happens is, is they don’t even get suppressed necessarily but within Amazon goes in there and they change the title to what they want it to be which is at the beginning and then once they’ve done that, a lot of the time now you can never change your title again. They lock it, So like for me. I always suggest putting it at the beginning.

Norman  44:23  

Very good.

Kelsey 44:26  

Okay, we’ve got a couple more still but is it advisable to have your own store on Amazon a few products?

Bradley 44:33  

I mean, if I only have one product, I’d still make a storefront so if that’s what you mean like I would get Brand Registry so I can have a storefront it’s gonna give me some  capabilities with other kinds of advertising on Amazon and it gives me another URL that I can promote. Like that URL of your storefront will start getting indexed also in Amazon and Google and you could send traffic to their Amazon loves outside traffic remember guys so yeah. I mean, whether I have one product, three products or 20 products, if I’ve got a Brand Registry, I will make a storefront for it.

Norman  45:09  

By the way, when you’re sending traffic over to your storefront, it’s so much more attractive than just having a hero graphic with a white background, it looks so much better.

Kelsey 45:20  

Okay, this one. Why do Jungle Scout and Helium 10 have a huge difference in their sales estimates? Sometimes it could be more than 500%.

Bradley 45:30  

Yeah, what I always say, I mean, I don’t even care if Helium 10’s in the conversation there. Never compare two tools. Because that’s kind of like a meaningless comparison like Helium 10 is this, Tool B is this, Tool C is this, Tool A is this. The reason why I say that’s a meaningless conversation is, what matters is what tool a, x, y, z is compared to Amazon. Alright, so if you don’t have that one constant, there’s no purpose comparing it to the illustration I always use is weather stations. If I don’t know what the real weather was we can have Channel 10 always predict that or channel 10 predicts x degrees or that there’s going to be rain. Channel Y predicts this many degrees? Well, the conversation of Oh man, why is it so different? There’s nothing beneficial that could be gotten out of that conversation. Because if you don’t know what actually did happen, you don’t know which one was more accurate. So what is the better conversation to have is, Hey, how come channel 10 always says it’s gonna rain, and every single day, it doesn’t rain? Well, that means that it’s not very accurate. So I say, just pick one tool like, I would never, I don’t care, even if somebody has another tool, one of our competitors, don’t get Helium 10 if you’re going to keep with your own tool, just stick with your own tool. Because if you think that somehow you are smarter than all of the data scientists that every single tool including Helium 10 has, and that you’ve come up with a better way to estimate sales, because I’m gonna throw up this Chrome extension, and I’m gonna throw up this one and I have this little formula that I do a mixture of No, I mean, if that was more accurate, I’m sure one of these tools would have done that. So never compare two tools guys, if you have Amazon for your own self, and you want to have like five tools, and then you say, Hey, I’m gonna compare my data with Amazon. That’s what matters and so that’s my advice there.

Norman  47:31  

Yeah, I like to add, and I’ve had that question a lot. But I use a tool as guidance. So if I’m using like, let’s say, the Jungle Scout on its own, I’m looking at it as guidance, Helium 10 as guidance, so it gives me the opportunity to say, forget the volume, but I know that there’s fairly good volume here if I’m using the tool, but that’s all. Other than that, all the other functionalities of whatever tools that you’re using that’s taken into consideration, but I believe it’s like listening to 10 different gurus. You’re gonna get a little bit different angles of where you’re coming from. So just Bradley, you’re bang on, pick a tool.

Kelsey 48:22  

Okay. From Nathan, how would you discover keywords for a product you’re repurposing?

Bradley 48:33  

So then you’ve got a product already, I’m assuming Nathan you’re talking about and then now you want to like maybe cross promote it into a different niche or something? Well, okay. So in that case maybe the competitors aren’t similar to yours but still if you think that you’re relevant to a certain keyword or a certain niche in this hip situation Yeah, I go ahead and analyze the products that are performing for that niche, even if it’s very different that my product and yeah, I’ll be able to pull some some keywords from there, I actually suggest doing that. Regardless even at the beginning, is study the, I mean, the step A never changes is Hey, the competitors who are most like yours you want to get those keywords but then look at the frequently bought together, Helium 10 and black box shows that you can enter in a ASIN and black box for product targeting, and you’ll see the history of all the products in the last month that showed up as frequently bought together and some of them are different like people aren’t just it’s not like this pen is always going to be frequently bought together with this pen. No, this pen is always going to be frequently bought together like a notebook or something. Alright, so if you are making the pen, go ahead and do some keyword research on the notebook, so that you can have some keywords that convert for this and that’ll help the relevancy to this niche. But then also, you might get ranked for some of these notebook keywords because guess what, there’s history that somebody who’s searching for a notebook, eventually they’re going to buy a pen anyways. So if your pen starts coming up on these notebook searches, either in PPC or organic, you can get a couple you’re not gonna retire off that, but you can get a couple sales a week here or there from that.

Norman  50:21  

Relevancy. Yep. All right Hayd or, Hey, I’m getting old, that’s my other son.

Kelsey 50:27  

Okay. I’m trying to get everyone in. Okay, from Oleg, what do you type in the manufacturer tab when you’re creating your listing?

Bradley 50:38  

Brand name, so I put in the same as the brand name, because what happens is for any new listing, if you don’t have Brand Registry, you get that brand 5665 error and then so of course, the way around that is you got to put an n not applicable or n dash a or n slash a, sometimes different things work. But if you put in the manufacturer, your brand name, even during this 123 week process that it takes you to get that brand approved, your brand will show up. So it doesn’t say NA on the actual Amazon listing. So even though you might have brand blank, or you might have NA, the brand will still show up as long as you have it right there in the manufacturer section.

Norman  51:21  

Okay.

Kelsey 51:25  

Could it be possible to aggregate the search volume and see the most relevant keywords are the ones we select?

Bradley 51:34  

Yeah, so you can do that, that was a recent feature in, not in Cerebro, but you can do it from Cerebro is you can put up to 200 keywords into Magnet. So you could do that right there in magnet, you just select it and then make a new search or pull the keywords from Cerebro and send it into Magnet, but you put 200 keywords there with a comma on each base and you don’t have to put a comma every time put that into Frankenstein, the keyword processor and Helium 10 and then just hit this button that says add a comma to every keyword. So you can do that in three seconds, put it into Magnet and boom, it’ll show the aggregated search volume right there.

Kelsey 52:15  

Okay, and let’s see, what would be your preferred time frame for doing the listing audit and changing keywords 3,4,6 months?

Bradley 52:26  

It depends sometimes on the niche like, if something’s brand new, I’d maybe look at it even every two months because it changes so much. But if it’s something like a silicone spatula or something. I highly doubt the trends of what people search for is gonna change over time. So I might go to the other extreme, and maybe just take a look at it every six, seven months.

Norman  52:50  

Do you remember the days of silicone spatula?

Bradley 52:53  

I remember it was like people don’t talk about it anymore as being cliche but back in the day, that was the collagen peptides.

Norman  53:02  

Exactly.

Kelsey 53:07  

When is your next new product x coming out?

Bradley 53:10  

Funny, you mentioned that we actually just had an internal meeting less than 24 hours ago at Helium 10 in and it would have come out already or we would have done something but all the plans that we had, were kind of messed up by COVID, like we had some ideas or we were getting like go to people’s houses and different things like that and we haven’t been able to really do that in the last year. So we came up with something that even though we’re still a few months away from normalcy like, this is my house. This is not the office. I recreated the office here at my house with the same background stuff. But once we get back into the office, it is probably I don’t know, end of the summer or something but we’re gonna start on something soon for the next project x.

Norman  53:55  

Bradley, you can say it. It was Tim, he was late.

Bradley 53:59  

Yeah, yeah, we did a cover for him. But okay, you let the cat out of the bag.

Kelsey 54:05  

Okay, and is it possible to record your Clubhouse with Kevin King and send it to Helium 10 members?

Bradley 54:11  

It’s a good question. I remember before in the TOS of Clubhouse it had said that you can’t record but I see that people do it just fine. So like I might look into that, it’s a good idea.

Norman  54:24  

The terms are if you have anybody talking, you have to get their permission to talk so when they bring them up you can just say Hey, you are going to be recorded. Do you agree and they say yes. Now it’s okay. You’re absolutely okay to record on Clubhouse

Bradley 54:44  

Cool. I think I can do it because I’ve got this road caster thing here. Where it can record, I’ve never tried it before, but it has that function so okay. Not a bad idea.

Norman  54:53  

If you want by the way just going down a different rabbit hole, contact Paul. Paul Baron.

Bradley 55:00  

Yeah, Paul is one of the ones I know who records on like that and that’s what got me thinking like, maybe it is okay. Yeah.

Norman  55:04  

He’s got a video he sent over to me to do it. So, yeah.

Bradley 55:08  

Do you have the road? Or what are you using?

Norman  55:12  

No. I have nothing. Well, what I’m doing I’ll tell you if people are interested in recording Clubhouse right now, I have something called Record Caster, or something like that, where, like Paul’s got this, it’s $1,000 for that Road Master Pro, right? So, I went and I got this thing at $3 a month and as long as I’m recording, and as long as I tell people I’m recording, I turn on record mass and the difference was it with some of these apps is that your voice levels are different. This is perfect. It’s perfect. So I have to test it out a bit more. But, I’ll send it over to you, by the way, like the app that I’m using and it’s nothing. Paul’s got a very complicated way of doing it and it works perfectly. I think that this might not be at podcast level, but it’s acceptable right now. So I was just looking at buying that Roadmaster like Hayden does all the mixing for the podcast for us. So I’m not exactly sure.

Bradley 56:21  

You just gave me an idea too and Facebook user here. I use Stream Yard too, I make fun like come on guys don’t be so shy, click that link so that we can see your name. But anyways, Facebook user, now I don’t have to give Facebook user credit for this idea because I don’t even know who he or she is. But, that could be interesting like, if I were to add like a third podcast of the week for The Serious Sellers podcast. It would be like a recording of Clubhouse. Yeah. Interesting.

Norman  56:51  

There you go.

Bradley 56:53  

Thank you Facebook User.

Kelsey 56:55  

We’re doing this episode on Mondays for Clubhouse and we’re doing the recording. Oh, but yeah.

Bradley 57:05  

You guys are doing that? Cool. 

Kelsey 57:09  

We haven’t uploaded any of the Clubhouse stuff yet. But we’re just doing Clubhouse extra as a bonus episode.

Norman  57:17  

On Mondays at 1:30, if you ever want to join us, Bradley, you’re happy to join us at 1:30.

Bradley 57:22  

Send me like a calendar invite. Otherwise I know I’ll forget that. That’s how Paul gets me into his every week because it pops off my calendar. So I’m like, Oh, I better hop on the Clubhouse. 

Kesley 57:36  

I can do that. All right and do you have any plans? So this one is for the UK but there’s also one for Australia. Do you have any plans of Helium 10 team visiting the UK?

Bradley 57:45  

Absolutely. I’m sure this has got Norm too but Norm knows how much I like to travel and we’d always see each other in different events and things and man this last year has been rough. So currently as long as I mean that now it looks like we might be able to get vaccinated by the end of May but my plans for this year, I’m going back to the Maldives again this this time with my family but I’m doing Japan this year, definitely doing Europe, I’m doing Pakistan as well beyond that we’ll see but Europe for sure and if I ever go to Europe, I always make a stop in the UK so we’ll definitely do a, there’s Lunch with Norm, we’ll have Lunch with Bradley but like physically in an actual place for sure this year.

Norman  58:25  

I wish. I gotta say this because I just put it in the Centurion group and I know there’s a bunch of listening but I just had to give up, I paid with Dave kettner a full, we were gonna do an Amazon live event. I can’t go to Mexico. I can’t get my money back so I’m just giving away a vacation to whoever wants to go like everything’s paid, all food, all everything and I haven’t been able to get a taker.

Bradley 58:54

I’ll take it.

Norman  58:56  

Would you?

Bradley 58:58

I can go to Mexico like is it because you’re Canadian?

Norman  59:01  

Yeah, I can’t get across the border.

Bradley 59:03  

Interesting. Yeah, I’ve only gone once because I had to go to a pharmacy. Nothing illegal guys but this is one you guys knows I have bad skin so I would have to go to get this one medication but I just walked right across the borders. It was fine. You can walk into the airport right there. They don’t really check but I know things are a little bit tougher for you guys up there.

Norman  59:25  

Yeah, I’m gonna just go off topic for a sec. I’m in lockdown.

Bradley 59:34  

I thought I had it bad here like San Diego is they’ve been seen as like the worst like we just got like outdoor dining a couple of weeks ago, and where everybody else, you got states like Texas and other places that are almost completely open but I thought we had it bad here in California, but I guess you got it worse up there. 

Norman  59:52  

Oh man. Yeah, a little bit. Okay, next question. 

Kelsey 59:57  

So if we need to get going at all.

Norman  1:00:00  

Oh, yeah, Bradley, it’s so past one o’clock.

Bradley 1:00:02  

I’m good. Like, like nine times out of 10. I have hard cut offs. But today, I had cleared my schedule. Pretty much, I can’t say.

Norman  1:00:12  

Is it because of Lunch with Norm?

Bradley 1:00:14  

I had a really rough week this week like, did you speak at the billion dollar summit too? Yeah. So like, that actually is the most nerve wracking one for me. I obviously speak what, 85 events a year or podcasts or different things and I just hop on here like this and it’s great and everything because I love interacting with people but they’re, it’s like, I get intimidated. Good grief. These are people like Norm $50 million sellers and $100 million sellers and stuff and like, I really got to be on my game. So like, last night, I woke up like, like three minutes before I came on here and I slept like 12 hours because I got a total of like, five hours sleep the whole week. So I was like I’m clearing my schedule Friday. So I can detox. So you can go up to 10:30 if you want to.

Norman  1:00:59  

Very good. So there’s plenty of other questions. All right.

Kelsey 1:01:05  

From Alina. Hi, Bradley. Hello, Norm. What are your thoughts on how to make a keyword selection for a totally new product which does not exist on Amazon, but we know that there’s demand because the product combines usages of more existing products?

Bradley 1:01:20  

Did Alina speak at the billion dollar summit too? I don’t know if she did, because it was all of you. You were in the car the thing yesterday, where it was the hacks or something that was the hacks and then I kept hearing Kevin say, Hey, Alina come up to the stage, and she never came up. So I wasn’t sure if it was Alina anyways. Let’s see, what are your thoughts on how to make a keyword selection for a totally new product, which does not exist. But we know there’s demand. So if I do the same exact thing, but I just have to double it now. So, let’s say there’s two products that I’m kind of combining. So, theoretically speaking, I’m going to do the keyword research on product A, and I’m going to do the same thing on this whole product B and kind of like pick the best out of both. But this is assuming I’ve done the research to make sure there’s demand for it. So like in cases like this, this doesn’t have to do with keyword research. This is more product research. This is where I especially use the Tim Jordan method of doing those PPC Tesla’s things where I’m like, Hey, if I’m creating something new, where all the indicators are there, my gut feeling is there that this is going to be good. I still don’t want to do that assumption that I’m going to crush it. So what I’ll do is I’ll make that combination, set it up there with a PPC Tesla, see, and then see if I can get impressions and things from it and then if so, then I’ll go ahead and move forward with it.

Norman  1:02:37  

What happens, let’s say that, and I’ve seen just recently, where you see a dragon dens product or Dragon’s Den is Canadian for Shark Tank. So you’ve got this really incredible product that’s there that you know you can make it happen. But there’s nothing in existence. Squatty potty, all of a sudden, squatty potty comes out. It didn’t exist before. What would you do for someone or what advice would you give to somebody if they had a unique product that could be in demand but nobody knows about it? 

Bradley 1:03:16  

Well, the thing is, I have always said that before, Hey Amazon isn’t, what’s those websites? What’s those crowdsourcing websites? That’s escaping my mind where you have this idea, and then everybody hops in and pitches in? Oh my goodness. Yeah, not GoFundMe. Oh, there’s two of those. There’s two main ones. Indiegogo is one. Kickstarter. Yeah, Kickstarter. Yeah. So I always say, Hey, Amazon, I mean, Amazon actually has its own kind of Kickstarter program. But the regular Amazon is not that. So you absolutely can go viral with a brand new product and even if you start on Amazon, but it’s not going to come from Amazon necessarily, you have to have a way to drive traffic there. Because the Amazon starts with searches and if there’s zero search volume, for any of the keywords that would come up, you’ve got to either A, get at the top of searches that maybe aren’t related to your product, but it’s just a matter of people seeing it, and they’re gonna like it that’s one path, or B, you’ve got to drive that traffic from off of Amazon. So like, don’t think of Amazon as a Kickstarter, you could use it to Kickstarter your product, but you still have to be able to do a or b In other words, send this outside traffic to get eyeballs on his product, or get on the top of keyword searches that might not be too relevant to your thing, because it’s a brand new thing. So how can it be very relevant but you think that the avatar of the customers who shop on those keywords, all they have to do is see your product and they’ll be like, Oh, I want that. Well, you got to do one of those two things.

Norman  1:04:53  

Nice. Okay, Kels.

Kelsey 1:04:55  

Okay. This is from Gideon. What kind of keywords should you put inside the EBC images, should I repeat the keywords I have on my list? Or should I add some new keywords which I don’t have on the list?

Bradley 1:05:06  

It depends like I said in the beginning of listings, I like repeating, I like repeating keywords just to give it that much more oomph. But for me, like I said, all the products that I launched last year, were all these like stuff, I hardly have any competition and usually when it’s a matter of that there’s hardly any keywords, there’s only there’s only so many keywords that could drive a sale to a coffin shelf. It’s like, it’s not like, oh man, I have no space, I only got five bullet points in 1000 characters in description and 250, in my search terms is not enough. No, I mean, that’s more than enough of what I need to get indexed for all the keywords. But if I was in the more competitive niches, yeah, I would use that for more real estate, not the duplication, but rather, just to get even index that I would use almost as sometimes, maybe somebody, even Spanish keywords you could put into it. The stuff that you don’t want in your regular listing.

Norman  1:06:01  

Yeah, we’ve seen where, and we do put a Spanish bullet point as our fifth bullet point.

Bradley 1:06:07  

Oh, really? Cool.

Kelsey 1:06:11  

Okay, from Peter, what does it mean when a certain product category on a black box does not show any sales or revenue numbers?

Bradley 1:06:19  

Yeah, so that’s usually either one of two things. Either A, there’s no BSR and we see more and more of that three years ago, almost everything had BSR, from Amazon. But nowadays, you’ll see a whole entire category that doesn’t have a parent, or a top level BSR. The reason? I have no idea you’d have to ask Amazon about that. So if there’s no BSR history, we can’t show an estimation because that’s what we’re using for our estimations. The other thing is that if the BSR is unstable, like if it just changed categories, or something, or we see some huge spike, or some huge dip, or it’s like, this seems kind of fishy, like either Amazon made an error, or maybe it just changed categories, or whatever the case is, we’ll blacklist that product from giving us sales estimation, because we’d rather not give you a sales estimation, than put something that’s wrong. So that those are the two cases.

Kelsey 1:07:13  

Okay, and what is the average number of products per brand you’ve seen from your experience?

Bradley 1:07:19  

I love that name. Doctor Koz Forensic Detectors. When it’s Facebook, it’s always somebody’s name. But when we get these YouTube Live, we always get some fun handles.

Norman  1:07:28  

Oh, yeah and his products are incredible. 

Bradley 1:07:31  

Cool. I love it.  I’ve never taken a look at that I’m not I don’t even know, if you could come up with a number. You’ve got some brands that because of variations and everything else that’s got 2000 products and then you’ve got another guy who might be just as successful with only five. So I’ve never taken a look to see the average. I would say don’t, if somebody is just starting out don’t don’t cap yourself like say up, I want to get up to 20 or I want to get to 30 and then I’m good for this brand. No, I mean, if you’ve got a brand that has wide appeal, and then you can do a variety of products. Just keep going, just keep going. I mean, Manny’s Mysterious oddities for the coffin shelf. Just for fun, I’m launching some other stuff there. I don’t know if I should say it. Now I’m not gonna say okay, there’s a new product guys that we’re gonna put on Manny’s Mysteries. Ah, geez, that’s hilarious. All right, it’s hilarious. One product I will say that we are adding to it is that I’m developing right now is a large coffin shelf. So I’m creating a large coffin shelf, we created this year a pink coffin shelf, a purple one. So like I could go to infinity with that brand. As far as spooky, spooky things. So like don’t limit yourself, don’t target a certain number, just do what feels right for your brand.

Norman  1:08:54  

This is from Jnr. Is it advisable to do competitive keyword search individually or do a group search?

Norman  1:09:01  

I do both always and you can actually do that from the same search with these new filters that we have. So if you’re doing it in Cerebro, I always like picking 5,6,7 different competitors. But there’s a way to do that, that we have something called advanced filters at the very bottom that not many people know about and then what you can do is you can say Hey, show me one where maximum one, maximum one of these competitors is ranked for in the top 10 or something like that and so it’s almost like you’re doing an individual search. So I would say always start with the group to see what the best keywords are for for the entire group. But then take it on an individual level using those filters. So you can see maybe there’s a keyword that just one of those competitors are really doing well for but the others aren’t.

Kelsey 1:09:47  

Okay, I think we can honestly keep going forever. 

Norman  1:09:51  

So, well what’s there now? We’ll just keep that.

Bradley 1:09:53  

We do Tesla things on there and almost all those Tesla’s things we’re doing like, there’s some egg shelf products that we did a Tesla just because I want to record an episode of Project X, and we got an order. But there’s this one that was so funny that I was like, you know what, there’s too many people like Daniel watching our Tesla says, I can’t even do a test for it. I’m just gonna launch it. So no, you got the wrong one Dan.

Kelsey 1:10:28  

Do you want to put a cap like a few more questions?

Norman  1:10:32  

Yeah, why don’t we put a cap? It’s the three more questions.

Kelsey 1:10:36  

Okay. All right. See? This is from Norman. I’m reviving an old listing with new variations and selling out the old variations. What’s my best title and keyword strategy to go with all the new research?

Bradley 1:10:52  

Selling out the old variations? Well, it depends on how similar it is, like, if it’s just if this variation is just like a multiple, like it’s a quantity thing. Or if it’s a color thing, I mean, it depends on what kind of variation you’re talking about. But look what works. If you think that the keywords that people would have searched for your ones you’re phasing out are the same as your new ones, well, then you gotta look back at your history either through brand analytics, or even through your keyword tracker and see which ones were converting there and just transfer those to your new listings. Now, if those new ones are hitting some certain features that those others didn’t, well, instead of looking at your internal keyword history, look at the other competitors who have something similar to there and then pull in those keywords. So it’s probably gonna be a combination of both of those.

Kelsey 1:11:42  

Okay, what should the volume from a niche, long tail keywords to include in your listing?

Bradley 1:11:50  

That;s different in a lot of categories, you take something small, like the coffin shelf, and if you have something that’s like, 300 search volume, Hey, that’s decent. That’s still probably top 100 keywords, because it’s such a small thing, now you have silicone spatula, or collagen peptides, a 300 search volume might not even be worth it like, you’d be lucky just to be able to get all the 1000. So I mean, so there’s no magic number, it’s just like, you’ve got to rank it, you got to rank them all. Just be more mindful of relevancy to your niche, as opposed to that number. Because if it’s super relevant, maybe the number is not high now, but it might go higher later, so go by relevancy instead of just the raw number.

Kelsey 1:12:40  

Okay, and the last one, pick someone who hasn’t done before, hasn’t asked one, I like Nicolas, how to export Cerebro’s result to work on it in Excel? I can’t reimport a keyword list back into Cerebro at a later date, to see the SV in the ranking of a handful of competitors, any updates coming?

Bradley 1:13:03  

Well we have the my list for keywords. So you absolutely can do that. So even before you get it to Excel or even after, you would just import, you’d want to import this block of keywords or whatever to your list is called the my list and keywords is the link is at the bottom left of your menu and you’ll have that entire history there until you delete it. So you could have lists of 1000 keywords, a list of 100 keywords, let’s have 10 keywords, different folders and all that. So that’s what you should do.

Norman  1:13:31  

All right. That was the last question, Kels.

Kelsey 1:13:34  

Yeah, I think that’s the last one we can do.

Norman  1:13:36  

Perfect. Yeah, we can go on forever. Alright, so why don’t we get over to the Wheel of Kelsey.

Kelsey 1:13:44  

Just give me a second. Okay, we got lots of entries. So here we go for a free one on one consultation with Bradley. 321

Norman  1:14:01  

Usually Kelsey sings the Jeopardy tune.

Norman  1:14:07  

Who won?

Kelsey 1:14:09  

Oleg.

Norman  1:14:10  

Oh, there we go.

Bradley 1:14:12  

You gotta send me this app. That’s pretty cool, I got to do that on one of those live, that is awesome.

Kelsey 1:14:17  

Yeah, just search up Wheel of Names. It’s there. 

Norman  1:14:21  

Wheel of names. Well, Wheel of Kelsey Of course. Yeah, that’s what he was supposed to do. Okay, so Oleg, congratulations. That’s a great prize. Bradley, as you take. That usually happens only to me when I’m at a restaurant. I’m just in the middle of a drink or chilling or something, the server comes up and says, Well, can I, so how do people or how, what’s going on? I know you’ve got a ton of stuff going on. How do people contact or watch what you’re doing?

Bradley 1:14:55  

Yeah. I mean, I usually announce different things that I’m doing on my Instagram. So you can follow me @h10bradley. But yeah, I mean, if you guys are already Helium 10 members, I’m sure if we have something big coming, you’ll get an email but I always put fun stuff on my Instagram. So that’s that’s a great place to find me there.

Norman  1:15:17  

Alright, fantastic. Okay, sir. Thank you for man, we went yeah an extra 20 minutes. I really appreciate you taking your time and I hope you can come back to the podcast.

Bradley 1:15:29  

Sure, anytime.

Norman  1:15:31  

All right, Bradley, we’ll talk to you soon. All right, everybody. So thank you so much for joining us today. I hope you got something out of this. I think there was just a lot of information to help to improve your listings and keyword research. So Kelsey.

Kelsey 1:15:52  

First off, congratulations Oleg, Olaf that’s also frozen. But send me over an email at k@lunchwithnorm.com and we’ll set you up with Bradley. Thanks everyone. I love the support everyone’s giving Oleg like right now. It’s always great to see in the community and thank you guys for watching this great episode. If you’re catching the tail end of this, you can always go over to the YouTube channel. All those episodes go over there. You can watch the whole thing there and yeah, let us know in our Facebook group, if you have any suggestions, if you have any topics, you want to share a funny meme. That’s your place to do it and we’re looking to build this community with you guys. So yeah, make it your own. We want this to be a special place too. So that’s Lunch with Norm Amazon FBA and eCommerce Collective and I think that’s it. Check out Clubhouse on Monday’s, 1:30pm Eastern Time. They go for anywhere from like an hour to an hour and a half. We’re trying to upload it at some time to some and all right guys. 

Norman  1:17:01  

Okay, so just to let you know that on Monday, we’ve got an incredible topic that a lot of I don’t hear being talked about a lot. We’re going to have Michelle Love from EMFord Insurance come on and talk about different types of insurance for Amazon sellers, what you need, what you don’t need. Anyways, a lot of people will contact us about types of insurance that you need to sell on Amazon, get this. Amazon is enforcing the insurance rule. If you’re selling on Amazon, you need to have insurance. If you’re getting a letter from Amazon saying please provide us with your insurance, you have 30 days to do it or your product is suspended. Anyways, we’re going to go through all of that on Monday. I think it’s going to be a really good podcast. But until that time, we will see you every Monday, Wednesday, Friday at noon, Eastern Standard Time. Thank you, everybody for watching today. Thank you for being part of the community and have an incredible weekend.