Great Copywriting can be the difference between a business that flourishes to one that can never quite get off the ground. Copywriting expert Diane Boerstler is here to help! In this episode, copywriting expert, Diane Boerstler shares with us the keys to great copywriting on this episode of Lunch with Norm! Find out tips on how to write high converting copy and start implementing business growth strategies you can use today! Diane Boerstler, M.NLP, who clients kindly refer to as “The Hypnotic Amazon Copywriter” and “The Wolf of Amazon”, is a top .001% internationally ranked business growth expert who’s generated more than $5 Billion in profits for small companies globally by leveraging the power of hypnotic, NLP infused sales copy, and massive business mindset shifting strategies.
Episode: 87
Title: Norman Farrar Introduces Diane Boerstler, a Copywriting Expert and CEO of NLP HypnoCopy.
Subtitle: Copywriting Tips
Final Show Link: https://lunchwithnorm.com/episodes/episode-87-the-keys-to-great-copywriting-w-diane-boerstler/
In this episode of Lunch With Norm…, Norman Farrar introduces Diane Boerstler, a Copywriting Expert referred to as “The Hypnotic Amazon Copywriter” and “The Wolf of Amazon”.
Diane is a business growth and copywriter expert who’s referred to as “The Hypnotic Amazon Copywriter” and “The Wolf of Amazon”. In this episode, she shares the keys to great copywriting and some growth strategies as well.
If you are a new listener to Lunch With Norm… we would love to hear from you. Please visit our Facebook Page and join in on episode discussion or simply let us know what you think of the episode!
In this episode, we discuss:
Our favorite part of recording a live podcast each week is participating in the great conversations that happen on our live chat, on social media, and in our comments section.
In this episode, we mentioned the following resources:
Join our discussion network here!:
Norman 0:01
Hey everyone, it’s Norman Farrar a.k.a The Beard Guy here and welcome to another Lunch with Norm, The Rise of the Micro Brands.
Norman 0:20
Alright. So for today, you definitely want to hang tight. We’ve got a couple of really big announcements that we’re going to be talking about and we’ve got an incredible guest. So in today’s show, we’re going to be talking with copywriting expert, Diane Boerstler. Diane, I hope I got your name right and anyways, Diane is a top 1,000th of a percent internationally ranked business growth expert who’s generated, get this, more than 5 billion that’s with a B in profits for small companies globally. So today we’re gonna be talking about what to do in copywriting, what not to do, what are some big mistakes, so it’s gonna be a really interesting show. So stay tuned. But before we get to that, where is Kelsey?
Kelsey 1:11
Hello, hello.
Norman 1:12
Hi, buddy.
Kelsey 1:15
Hi. How’s it going?
Norman 1:16
It’s going very good. Hey, I see a few people rolling in. Dr. Koz, glad to see you. Mark, Darwin, Radd, Baptist, Fatiha, Facebook user. Not sure who that is. You’ll find out though. Alright.
Kelsey 1:34
But yes, we got lots to go over today.
Norman 1:37
When are you going to unveil out?
Kelsey 1:40
So first of all, we do have a really great prize for the podcast today. So stick around for that. I think you guys will really enjoy it or at least one of you will really enjoy it. But if you’ve noticed on our social media, we’ve got a big contest happening. We’re giving away Airpods. One pair of AirPods.
Norman 1:58
AirPod Max or AirPod Pros. Yeah. AirPod Pros, right?
Kelsey 2:04
Airpod Pros?
Norman 2:05
Yeah.
Kelsey 2:05
I got to add that in. But yeah, it’s going for two weeks and the winner is going to be announced on our special fan episode. So I’ve been messaging some fans, and we’re gonna have a bunch of fans on the show.
Norman 2:25
That’s gonna be really cool, by the way.
Kelsey 2:27
Yeah, I’m super excited for that. That’s January 22nd. So if you guys haven’t, go to our social media, press on the link for the contest, and super easy and yeah, maybe get a pair of Airpods.
Norman 2:39
Like how you do that. You’re like a runway model. Do it again. Oh, very good. Yeah. It’s a great way to expand our community. Check it out, Kelsey put this all together, and I think they’re gonna be great. So, yeah, and good luck to everybody for the Airpod Pros contest. Alright.
Kelsey 3:03
Somebody questioned about what’s an Airpod Pro. Airpod Pro has noise cancelling. Yeah. There’s settings that you can pick out all the noise and US residents only.
Norman 3:15
Oh, yeah. Sorry, guys. I can’t even apply. All right. So look, if you’re listening to this episode, if this is on a replay, you can just skip ahead and go right into the meat of the podcast. If you’re listening to this on my profile page, just go over to Norman Farrar. Oh, you’ve changed now it was Norman Farrar, a.k.a The Beard Guy. Now I think it’s just Lunch with Norm, right?
Kelsey 3:43
That’s right. The Lunch with Norm podcast.
Norman 3:47
All right. So anyways, go over there and you can see the full episodes, highlights and all sorts of different content. By the way, guys, it’s Friday. So I know on Monday, we are distributing a newsletter that does not suck. Subscribe to it. You’ll get this week’s and then you’ll get next week’s. So check it out. You can just go to either Lunch with Norm or normanfarrar.com, and you’ll see the subscribe button. So I think that’s it from my side Kels. What about from you?
Kelsey 4:18
Yeah, that’s it. Just enjoy the show, everyone.
Norman 4:22
All right. So one more time. If you do have a question, throw it over into the comment section. We will try to get to it and if we can’t get to it, we will answer it after the show. So sit back, relax, grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the show.
Diane 4:40
Hi.
Norman 4:41
Hello Diane.
Diane 4:42
How are you?
Norman 4:43
Good. Good. How are you?
Diane 4:45
Good. Good.
Norman 4:47
That’s awesome. Hey, can we talk a little bit about you and a bit about your background?
Diane 4:54
Sure. So I’m Diane Boerstler. I have several master’s degrees that don’t matter. The one that everybody seems to really like is the one that’s more on the side of neurolinguistics and the psychology side. I have let’s see here, I started doing what I called this, which is kind of all around business growth, consulting, and then also writing words that sell things about, I want to say 12 years ago now. When I was kind of pushed off a cliff, I had a 26 weaker, right? So she’s aching for about four months, and I had to make a decision: do I stay with running this massive organization that I was running at the time? Or do I leap off a cliff and start my own business with no idea about what I’m doing and just kind of grew from there. I actually started off at that point time, I think, in real estate investment, and then moved into sales copy and consulting pretty quickly because I realized that the words that I was writing and the advice I was given people was making them a lot more money for these real estate investing companies than what I was making personally in trying to flip houses and things like that. So yeah, and that’s not even where I started. Actually, I started when I was six years old, I had my first business and it was picking up rocks out of people’s yards. Yeah, I’m not kidding. I’ve always just been that way like that, find a problem, solve it, make money off of it. So yeah, I mean, cuz people talk about being dirt poor right? We were not dirt poor like we didn’t even have dirt. So yeah, kind of rose up from absolutely nothing to help and create more than actually I think last tally it’s more than 6 billion So a little family, really like the family oriented businesses.
Norman 6:36
So dirt to rocks to $6 billion worth of profit. Nice.
Diane 6:42
Yeah. It’s not bad.
Norman 6:45
The first time I saw you I think it was on the Illuminati you were talking with either Kevin or Manny coats. That’s what it was.
Diane 6:56
Kevin and Manny are awesome.
Norman 6:58
Yeah. So that’s where and when I first listened to you, my mouth dropped. Like just listening to what you were saying and what you were doing that was so different from all these other copywriters and we have had great copywriters on this podcast. Well, you approach just a little bit differently, don’t you?
Diane 7:18
I do. My background is in, I guess you would say neurolinguistics and abnormal psychology and a lot of that has to do with the system isn’t awful and I’m not saying this is the right thing to do, but the psychology of manipulation and so what you learn along that pathway is how covert government agency everything from an A not standing in like a conspiracy theory but covert government agencies to mass murderers to these cult leaders to these big people like Tony Robbins that how they leverage specific phrases and words and tactics to get this hit these huge mass followings, right? I figured that if we can do that, if somebody like that can get a huge mass following and get people to do exactly what they want to do, even things that are illegal, how cool would it be if we can take this stuff and use it to help small business owners make more money online actually serving people the right way, right? So it’s kind of like trying to take something that’s not necessary. It’s something that’s very, on the edge, and maybe not necessarily useful in society on that side of things and turn it into something good.
Norman 8:24
We talk a lot about perception and people look at perception sometimes as deception, and it’s not at all, and that’s exactly, I think what you’re talking about is, you’re just showing people how to use your words to grab somebody’s interest and become either a fan or, a passionate customer, how about that.
Diane 8:50
A passionate customer, a brand ambassador, someone who’s going to buy your product and I mean, copywriting is like, I wish I could say, I’m just a top copywriter, right? But like, for example, I write words that sell things, and that’s a lot of what I get paid for it. But most people, when they approach me, they approach me because they have a problem and I end up in a consulting role even though I’m not charging them for that and the end goal is like, what they pay me for is the words that sell things. But people get themselves in all kinds of pickles and kind of it plays with that too, because they can’t think beyond what they know, right? So a lot of people think they’re their own customer, and that starts getting in trouble or they think they need a position like their competitors and that really gets me in trouble and they just become white noise. So actually, I have a 126 point checklist that I go through for every problem and every piece of sales copy and every funnel blueprint that I create for people, every business growth strategy, because there’s a lot more than just what we see in front of us. There’s a lot going on up here in people’s heads. So we got to get to hear and also, I mean, obviously their heart but really to their head to sell them.
Norman 9:58
So there’s a mixture of people on this podcast. So you got people that are newbies, they’re brand new to eCom. There’s a COVID project and or those people, congratulations, because you’re entering into a world right now that I don’t think is like any other period of time, where you can go in with very little inventory or investment and be profitable and that all depends on what you buy, and all that other stuff. But we also got the intermediate sellers, and we’ve got the advanced sellers. I can see a few of them on the chat right now. But for those people who are coming out, and they’re looking at, Okay, should I write this copy myself? I talk about spending money the right way, there’s the right time to spend money and the wrong time. Do you think right off the bat, if you’re new to Amazon, should you be going to a copywriter, like yourself and getting you to write the copy or save the money?
Diane 11:04
That’s a really great question. So I think that my stats are about 36% of people who start on Amazon are starting on a shoestring budget, right? So what I did, I want to say like three years ago is I created this, it’s like a 12 hour long training program for copywriters, or for people who are launching on Amazon or any kind of eCommerce store that’s free on YouTube and that’s where I try to send people first because if you can’t pay your rent, and you can’t pay your mortgage, and you’re struggling to pay your car payment, and you’re just now getting started, and you’re one of those bootstrappers, who’s like, I’m going to go from underdog to rising, I would suggest that you try to find something that’s free that you can learn from and create it in under a day, right? Because you need to feed your kids before you go to any higher copywriter for everybody else, if you’re more time oriented, and you’re thinking, Okay, well, I’m a professional, and I make great money, I would absolutely take advantage of hiring a copywriter and hopefully one that actually double check and make sure they understand the strategy behind business growth, double check and make sure they understand Amazon compliance. If you’re in supplements, FDA compliance is really important and because all of that can fall back on you. So, you don’t want just to hire somebody who writes words, right? So there’s a lot of copywriters out there, right? People who say I write words who sell things, okay, it’s a copywriter, essentially. But if you come to them, and you have the wrong idea, the wrong angle, the wrong positioning for your product, you don’t understand your benefits and how they create a transformation, you’re still going to be out the money because you’re competing against people who are hiring people who understand the whole system of sales in the system of psychology, right? So don’t just hire a copywriter, make sure that you’re hiring and there’s probably 20 of us who are really, really good at what we do specifically in eCommerce and Amazon and then also we all all 20 of us have businesses on the services side as well. So we’re never just eCommerce, Amazon. When you’re good at it, you’re good at it, you can sell anything to anybody. That’s the other thing, make sure that your copywriter, if you don’t know, make sure that they understand how to structure an offer, right? How to structure a launch, because otherwise, you’re just getting words that sell things, you’re not going to have the same chain like affinity down, and you’re gonna have blocks in your essential sales funnel and Amazon is part of a sales funnel, of a mental sales funnel.
Norman 13:25
So, one of the things that just came to mind, you can spend the money and I tell people this for images, so they can take a picture with their iPhone, they can go to a crappy photographer, or they can spend the money on a really great photographer and when you’re crafting, and I mean crafting a title or the bullet points to engage people or get people. One of the things people spend a lot of time on horrible keyword research. Yeah. What’s the difference? Yeah, like, I look at listings and I go Oh my God, these keywords don’t convert. So what’s the difference about finding in your keyword research keywords that convert and just using keywords with lots of search volume?
Diane 14:15
Okay, that’s a really good question. So let’s start with the software’s right? There’s a lot of software’s out there that say we have direct access to the algorithm, we have direct access to AWS and there are a couple from understanding that do but the cost to even access AWS and integrate it with Google Cloud is $150,000 a month minimum, okay and that’s if you have a volume of like 1000 people who are going through and using that, okay. So that’s each person paying $15,000 a month to get access to that data. As you can imagine, those $100 a month software services, they don’t really have access to all of that data, not correct data. They have what we call assumptive data, right? So if you’re going to use those and you’re looking at volume, volume is not spot on. The biggest thing to think about when you’re talking about keywords and I have another beef with you keywords but I’ll answer your question first is that, success leaves clues, right? So if you see, if you go to page one for the keyword that has the highest volume, and you see your competitors are all using specific keywords and their titles and their bullet points, those are generally the keywords you want to look at using right out of the gate until you can afford somebody who actually understands keywords analytics, the qualitative side of the data, or sorry, quantitative side of the data and can tell you which keywords to pick, right? Because a lot of people go and those software’s are great, right? They’re awesome, but they go and they spit out a list of keywords and assess search volume in its little column right there and so search volume is like this, this, this, this, this, this, right? That data was often pulled in like a second and it’s an estimate, right? Based on the number of sales that we think the estimated listing is getting, okay, based on their rank on a page. I’m sorry, my background was actually I went to college for stats when I majored in stats, so like for me? So I’m like, okay, here’s the numbers, can you see the numbers? They’re in front of me. I know you can’t see them. So, definitely look at the success on the page. Success leaves clues start jotting down from there and then the other thing is, I have a favorite software that I use, where I can go and see all of the side keywords as well, via the ASIN. So look for keywords like, during advertising, look for keywords. Obviously, some people don’t know this, maybe this is more for the newbies like brands, or I like to call them affinity keywords or outside keywords. Right? So you’re not just looking for the keywords that have high search volumes based on a list of something spit out, you’re looking for the keywords that target three of the five levels of customer awareness. Right? So what are the people who are new to this going to be looking for right? So are they searching for things like we read somebody on like page one of Google for a really competitive product because we did, how to eliminate wrinkles in the copy and it was ranked by Google because it’s not just Amazon that ranks these keywords, right? It’s nothing to think about, there’s more than Amazon ranking for here. What are the people who are skeptical going to think? What are the keywords they’re going to use? That’s like customer awareness level five. Are these people looking for specific products? Keywords or product specific, that’s customer awareness level 2 where they’ve already decided, right? That they’re going to find a certain product like they want to lose fat, right? Are they going to be looking for which we can’t advertise on Amazon anymore, a fat supplement like a fat blasting supplement or are they going to be looking for a foam roller? Or are they going to be looking for like a, what do you call those strips, like the tummy fat burning strips or one of those little things you stick around your stomach that kind of vibrates, right? Like the abs, the muscle ab toners. All those are affinity products that you can be advertising for pulling more keywords or pulling more traffic and a lot of times, you’re dealing with people on Amazon who are customer awareness level 3, right and that’s actually your biggest, low hanging fruit on Amazon, right? Customer awareness level 3 are the people who know they have a problem, right and they know there are like 10 different solutions to fix it like a supplement, a weight loss belt, those fat deteriorating creams, or cellulite creams. They know that there’s like, let’s see here. Like they could be using workout, looking for specific workout videos. Those are all people that you’re still trying to convince that not only your specific brand name product is going to solve their problem, but that a product of that type is going to solve that problem. So if you dig deeper into keywords, and you start looking for what else might they buy to solve this problem, you’re going to find a lot of keywords that no one is even measuring for on those softwares, right and so like I said, I call those affinity keywords and a lot of times we can rank somebody who can sell a 1000 foam rollers based on someone who’s looking for an exercise band. Right? It doesn’t show that, it doesn’t show a lot of times like that person but we know as people who have been in business growth for over a decade, that they’re often looking for something else that customer awareness level 3 and we think about that more positioning and sales copywriting to. Who else are we speaking to, we’re always speaking to one person, but to sell them but who else we want to fall into the funnel because the funnel gets bigger and bigger and bigger the more you think about the customer awareness levels, and which keywords you’re using and affinity keywords are using and the How to DIY keywords like how do I eliminate eye wrinkles, do it yourself creams for eye wrinkles, things like that. So you have to have information on you at one time.
Norman 19:40
No, that was great because a lot of people don’t realize that and we’ve talked about this with toe wart remover, and how to spread that out with all these other keywords. People wanted to buy the product or they didn’t even think of buying the product until you started making it and talking to these other people and I don’t know if you’ve ever used this, like, I love Helium 10. I use it all the time. But there’s another tool out there from Troy Johnson, Seller Tools and one of the key features that they have that I love is that you can put in this whack of keywords and let’s say it’s bully sticks. So bully sticks, it is a buying keyword, but it’s 200,000 search volume. But you can have all these other keywords, I call them primary longtail like, grass fed bully sticks, organic bullies, whatever it is. Some might have 20,000 search volumes, some might have 5000 search volumes, some might have 250 search volumes, the one with 250, or 5000 outperform the 200.
Diane 20:54
Saturation. I have a whole spreadsheet, I can send somebody if they want to figure out what the saturation is of a keyword or a product. Like that’s part of how we source products, how I help people source products.
Norman 21:04
That is incredible and I’ve got to talk to you after this then. But with that tool, we have been able to, like really it changes your profitability, and changes your profitability I wouldn’t say overnight, give Amazon two weeks, and you’re gonna see some different results by words that really convert, not words that you think you convert or not words that you see with your competitors, because they might not be using these keywords.
Diane 21:35
They don’t know about it, this where you start.
Norman 21:37
Exactly.
Diane 21:38
This is where you start and you’re going a little bit deeper on that
Norman 21:40
So on that, so let’s talk a little bit about and you already touched on it but copycatting your competitors.
Diane 21:49
Okay. So, let’s just say you’re selling something that you by chance didn’t create yourself. Okay, we call that, it’s probably most people do in the world at this point. We call that private label selling, right? So you have to take this product, and you have to position it, okay? A lot of people when they’re going into Amazon or eCommerce or they’re advertising on Facebook, they say, Okay, well, success leaves clues. It absolutely does. But when you’re looking at a product, a lot of people aren’t thinking about position, you’re thinking, Okay, well, I’m going to compete against these guys, I’m gonna make a product just like them because I see that they’re the top seller in this right?
Diane 22:31
Are you there? Sorry about that. Real estate investment deal going on today, too. So there’s like people calling through? I’m so sorry, we were talking about positioning. Okay, so for positioning, if you try to copy everybody else, right? Let’s say that you’re selling supplements, and you’re trying to copy Sports Research Institute, which is a great brand, great products, right? I see a lot of sellers come in and say, Well, we’re gonna copy Sports Research Institute, we want to copy genius, and we want to copy all these top dogs, right? You’re just gonna come across as white noise and you’re trying to compete and grab their customers, that’s really hard to do, because they were to lock those customers down. You have to look at worlds in the market, you can grab a piece of the market share, right? I don’t mean just, like, people were coming in five years ago saying, Well, my product’s organic, my product is all natural. My product is okay. But that’s been around for, 20 years, I gotta think of something else. What you’re thinking of are people’s, like, start trying to think in terms of identity. Okay, so when you start with, you know what, have you heard of the five logical levels Norm?
Norman 23:35
No, I haven’t.
Diane 23:38
So in deep linguistics, what we look at, when we’re speaking directly to someone’s subconscious mind is we look at these things called five logical levels, right? This actually pertains to human change if you’re going to change behavior, right? So you have higher power, right? Which we don’t really mess a lot with people because we just, we don’t switch on Amazon and then you have identity and then you have beliefs, right and then you have capabilities, and then you have environment. Okay, so when we’re looking at positioning a product, and we’re looking at those last four on that five, I feel like I keep leading, okay, those last there we go, those last four on that five, we’re looking at their identity, are they a biker? Are they going to get tattoos? Are they, like, because even a fitness person, right? Someone who’s like, really into the gym isn’t necessarily just into the gym, that’s not all of who they are. So if you go to Facebook and you start poking, like plugging in the Facebook, what is it called the Facebook, they keep changing the name of it, but I think it’s Facebook Audience Insights, something like that. If you go there, you can go and look at people’s other things that they consider part of their identity and you can dig pretty deep on that, too. So if you go to Facebook Audience Insights and you say okay, I know that this person is into these three fitness gurus or they’re into this type of fitness. Maybe they’re into Tai Chi, right? What that’s going to pull it and you have a product that’s going to help with that, right? So you have like these bands that maybe I’m just making this up off the top of my head, they help you kick, do perfect formation, right for Tai Chi or something along those lines. If you type that into a Facebook Audience Insights, you’ll start seeing that they have other parts of their identity, right? So you start seeing other groups that they’re a part of. You can dig down deeper than that and see how active those people are in those groups and so this starts to give you other ideas for positioning. Because when you’re speaking to people, you want to speak to them to their identity first, right and then you go and you look at the other thing you can do, this is such a vast topic. Sorry, again, I’m over here. No, I got like a widescreen camera here, like a bubble fish camera. So the next thing we want to look at beyond identity are their beliefs. Right? So their beliefs about themselves, their beliefs about the way the world operates, whether or not they are anyways, want to include things like, are they going towards happiness? Are they going away from pain? That’s an easy one. Are they the kind of person who needs to see things more than one time or are they buyers. There’s just like I said, I have this in my training program as well, that’s why it’s 12 hours long. First, if someone gets through that, it’s like power to the people, like to know how to do this at that point in time. So look at their identity for positioning. My most and then, obviously, in sales copywriting, I always want to show people how they’re capable of doing it because people’s number one fear isn’t that they’re going to buy a product and it won’t work, it’s that they’re gonna buy a product, and they can’t make it work. Right? So they’re worried about them, they’re not worried about the product and that’s where people go back and get angry at products, because it’s a self esteem thing. Otherwise, I mean, you don’t see a piece of plastic on the ground, and you get angry at it, right? But if you tripped over it, you’re pretty angry at it, because it’s embarrassing. It’s like I said, it’s a self esteem identity thing and so identity, beliefs, capabilities, and then environment, most sales copywriters, and most sellers, when they’re first starting out, they always think in the terms of environment, right? They think, Okay, well, traditional psychology, Freudian psychology, Pre Ericksonian psychology they said, Well, it’s the environment, if you change the environment, then you change the child right? If you change the environment, you change the child. If you change the environment, you can change somebody’s entire life. We now know that it comes from the top down from higher power and identity and when you shift that, that’s what changes their behaviors, their beliefs, everything else in their life, right. That’s what creates success. It’s not changed the environment that creates success. You can put your kids through French piano, whatever. But if they don’t have their identity set correctly, it’s not going to matter. Right? Same thing when you’re looking at sales copy or when you’re a new selling, you’re looking at positioning your product, if you stick down here and environment think, Okay, well, this is going to change, it’s going to just make their kitchen look beautiful and they’re going to take this everyday, it’s going to keep them from eating, right? I would say it’s like an appetite suppressant, right? Or it works with your leptin cycle or whatever things we can’t technically say but we use the quindell claim to save them. The claim to claim language pattern to say them, that’s part of environment, right? We’re thinking in sales copy, like we change their environment and you do have to hit on that because that’s what people believe, right? But there’s a lot more to that when you’re actually writing a listing that sells or when you’re writing a sales page that sells or sells a VSL we’re doing a ton of sales lately, sales emails. So, look at all of that when you’re going through positioning your product and then if you really, if that’s too much for you, right, I’m gonna give you a really simple technique if that’s just way too much for you to go through, hours and hours of video training and figure out how to position your product correctly. There’s something I call the hypnotic feature anchor, right? So I first recognized this, I think it was on an infomercial in the 1980s 1990s when I was way back when I was a kid. There was a Hoover Commercial, right and they were talking about the special like they gave a name to the special thing that the vacuum did. Here’s the thing, the vacuum didn’t do anything else any better or it wasn’t any more special than any other product that was exactly like it right? What does the vacuum do? It sucks up dirt, some of them can suck up a bowling ball. When’s the last time you did to suck up a bowling ball? Like tell me like everyone rambling I just want to see if they suck a whole ball right? Like wasn’t like I’m not looking for that. In fact, I wanted to not suck up things like that because the kids’ toys are around, right and then my vacuum is toast. Okay, so when you’re looking at your product and how to position it, write out all the features, go through your competitors, their testimonials, if it’s off Amazon, go through the reviews, if it’s on Amazon and look for words that they’re using over and over and over again, right that the customers are using. Make a spreadsheet and again I have a spreadsheet people can grab there’s like free training they can download off Amazon or not Amazon, off YouTube. YouTube has all of these templates in it, right? So how to create a hypnotic anchor all of that, right? But I’m just gonna give you this brief overview and make that spreadsheet and start keeping track like a tally like, Okay, so people are using, they’re saying they pet hair, pet hair, pet hair, pet hair, right? For this vacuum, they’re saying doesn’t suck, doesn’t suck up enough, doesn’t suck up enough, not strong enough, can’t get into my carpet, start making that list and checking off and making a tally and then look at those, see how you can combine one of those words like the one with the highest number of tallies or combine the top two with the highest number of tallies into what I call a hypnotic feature anchor and then give it like add a cool high tech thing to it like, like Vortex 3x like pet sucker, right? I mean, that’s kind of silly. But that’s what you’re doing when you’re creating a hypnotic anchor like that, which is just a really cool name for a feature in your product, if you’re anchoring that feature in your customers brain and then you’re explaining what it does, they’re going to go and look for this. Their brain, like without even realizing subconsciously is going to go look for that other thing, right? So Vortex 3x, Vortex 3x pet sucker, or pet hair sucker or something like that. You don’t have to go that hype, you’re over the top. But, this is Hoover we’re talking about right? You suck at bowling balls.
Diane 31:29
So if you go and you use that, and then you explain just the very basics of what that cool technology means for their life, you’re going to get a lot further ahead because it’s going to anchor that name, that hypnotic feature anchor, which is like a brand name feature, right? It’s going to anchor into their subconscious mind, then their subconscious mind when they’re going to look at these other listings or they’re going to look for their products on Google, Jet, Walmart, wherever you’re at and we’re even in service. Like if you have a really cool thing, like a hypnotic anchor in your lawn mowing service, I helped my poor lawn mowing guy and he tripled his business this summer. Right? Guy had two lawn mowers, that’s it. That’s all he had and now he’s got like six trucks and a bunch of lawn mowers. Right? Because I was like, you have to advertise better. I’m out in the yard, like, Okay, you have to advertise better. I can’t , this, like your flyer case? Here’s these things, like great service, but people don’t know. Anyhow, going back to the rabbit trail, these hypnotic anchors will anchor to people’s mind them when they’re going through and looking at your competition, right, because they’re a huge percentage of the population is more than one people, they have to see you more than once and they have to verify and validate that they’re making the right decision. Their brain will be looking for that hypnotic anchor, along with the explanation behind it, and they won’t see it and so who do they go back to? Yeah, they go back to you because they can’t find it. Now, there’s a lot of people out there who are using hypnotic anchors at this point in time, especially the top sellers, because they’ve either watched podcasts or webinars or they figured this out, right? But this is what big brands do. It’s a really great way to make your product look like it’s thoughtfully designed. You’ve self created it, instead of it being a regular PLR product and here’s another hint for that, right? So I’m sure people are thinking well, what if you have a private label product or a me too product that shows up, in the first place in place, and they all look the same on Google shop, right? So it’s obviously the same product, right? How do you position differently there, or on Amazon, right or on Walmart and it’s obviously like the same exact product, right and you want to charge $10 more for it, whether it’s because you goofed up and you forgot the rule that money starts in the buying phase, right? Just like real estate, the lower you buy, the more profit you’re gonna make, or you just want to make more money off that product and you can look at your packaging, right? So if you have your packaging and you have your bullet points on your packaging, and you have like a giant seal that talks a bit that says Delta technology, right? Or, like have your hypnotic anchor made into a seal you could do this on Fiverr for like $10 and put it, make it really big on your packaging that starts to position your product is different because the consumer can then see that like, Oh, these must be and we’ve measured this. This must be the original, everybody else are copycats. This guy’s the original, this guy’s the one who created it. He knows what’s going on. I’m gonna buy the real thing. So that’s just another quick little tip like to go add to your listings across the internet.
Norman 34:29
I can see it now. The certification, the Vortex 3x. Yeah. Really, really great points, like you’re bringing out a lot of information that most people haven’t heard about before. It’s incredible. Before we go to the next couple of questions, I want to talk a bit more about the giveaway. So right now, anybody listening, Diane knows what she’s talking about and she delivers the information a lot different than most people. So you’re giving away $500 worth of copywriting.
Diane 35:15
And consulting. It comes with consulting.
Norman 35:17
Okay and consulting and all you have to do to enter this giveaway is #IwantDiane. So let’s get that going and this is really kind of cool, too, because a lot of the times when we’re on the podcast, we can’t do this outside of the United States. So I can’t even get in.
Norman 35:40
That’s what I was gonna do.
Diane 35:50
International and US.
Norman 35:41
So there we go. So if you’re outside of the US, you can join this one. Kelsey, while we’re doing this, have there been any questions there? You’re gonna get nailed. Diane, you’re gonna get nailed.
Diane 35:58
That’s great. I love questions.
Kelsey 36:01
So Lisa is asking which tools do you use exactly for your keyword research for copy?
Diane 36:06
Oh my gosh. So I use most of the keywords. I use, obviously, Helium 10. I love Merchant Words, because of a couple things I can do there that I don’t need to do anywhere else.
Norman 36:16
Stop there, Diane. I used to use Merchant Words, I went away from them for a while. I know that they’re doing things different. What is Merchant Words doing differently now? Why do you love them?
Diane 36:27
Okay, so these cool little buttons. So if you go and you do keyword research now, right and again, these aren’t the only two I use, I use like five plus keyword engines just for Amazon, then there’s several others I use for Google like SEMRush, obviously, you could do Google. I mean, you can look through the whole world on SEMRush. So one of the things I love is now when you search on Merchant Words, and I just signed back up with them like a month ago, by the way, and they’ve had fabulous customer service, because I got myself stuck. But if you search for a keyword and you look down the left hand side, by that keyword they have, you can do deeper dives into it and there’s analytics that show you like, so you can tell if it’s seasonal and non seasonal. There’s like, you can click P1, which is page one, and it shows you the different products that are ranking for that keyword on page one to give you ideas. I’ve been using Merchant Words a lot in my consulting where I’m helping people find six figure products, right and that’s something that about 25% of my time, that’s what I do is I help people and that is a paid consulting gig obviously, like, Hey, let me give you all my product ideas, because I won’t sell products on Amazon or on jet or anything like that. Usually I do JV, but I won’t sell outright because it’s a conflict of interest and if I do JV, it’s something really unique that nobody else does. It’s like a custom creative product, right and invention, Okay, so they have this P1, so you can click P1, you can see everything on the on page one, it’s really visual, that’s where I go now to get a lot of my, like side keywords, my affinity keywords, because they started pulling them, which I really like. So it just gives me a better broader idea and there’s other softwares you can use that does something very similar, if not identical, but for me the interface the way that it works is very, I love Helium 10 and I love that one because the visual is just so visual, right? My brain can take snapshots instead of having to read through data like I love keywords, I think it’s keywordtools.io. Is that the one that runs like a million? Like I have all the tabs up and I just run all at the same time and download everything that I have a system that I created, it compiles them all right, and runs analytics, like I created a macro myself, so I can pull things out myself. But, there’s one that runs for, like 13-14 hours and gives you 7 million keywords and 90% of them no one’s ever gonna use unless they’re from, unless they graduated from Harvard, or try to think of the equivalent and so yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of great keyword softwares but I do Merchant Words, it’s where I’ve been starting now. I used to start on Helium 10 because Helium 10 has really great data. Right? I would say that in terms of data, it’s about the closest that I found personally, that you’re going to get from inside sources at Amazon that can actually kind of say, Okay yes, that’s correct. Right? That’s what we’re seeing within our system. Right and so I start on Merchant Words, go to Helium 10 and then I look other places, just to make sure I haven’t missed anything, basically. Plus remember, you’re not just straight ranking for Amazon, your ranking for Google your ranking on Yahoo search engine, your ranking on Bing search engine, you want to rank across the board, not just on these platforms that are internal sales, like internal product search engines, like Google Shopping, Amazon, you want to rank everywhere, right? You want to rank on Facebook, you want to show up like you want to write Facebook notes about these products, or your services. So those rank, you want to rank on YouTube, you really want to rank on YouTube. If you’re not ranking on YouTube, we need to have a conversation, okay, because that’s not that hard to do and it’s a really great place to get sales. Whichever platform you want and that traffic counts as Oh, sorry, that traffic counts as being really valuable for ranking within these other internal sales search engines like these, like Amazon. So if you have external traffic coming from YouTube, Amazon likes that, so does Walmart, I believe. Yeah. So, but if you’re not on YouTube, we need to have a conversation.
Norman 40:27
Okay, next question Kelsey.
Kelsey 40:31
Okay, first of all, actually, how do people get in touch with you? Because I think everyone is freaking out right now.
Diane 40:39
Oh, so the easiest way to get in touch with me is through my help desk, and I manage it myself. It’s hypnoticamazoncopywriter.com. Or, I don’t know, if you post anything, do you post anything below these because I can send you information on how to get a hold of me. Okay, or diane@amazonsalesguru.com. I did not make that name up, my client did. They thought it was funny. I ran with it and everybody loved it. So amazonsalesguru.com, I didn’t make that up. It’s still embarrassing to this day for five years old. So, I mean, they can get a hold of me there or you can just plug my name into Facebook, a lot of people just like popping up on my private messenger and I’ll just answer your questions. My clients a lot of times are more like friends. When you make people money, they like you. They’re all over my Facebook page, too. Anyhow, sorry, yes. That’s how you can get a hold of me. Those are the easiest ways to do it.
Norman 41:36
Okay, we will post those links Kels.
Kelsey 41:40
Okay, Darwin was asking about the average pricings. Okay, what is the average pricing for top level writers, full listing keyword research and EBC modules.
Diane 41:59
For me, that would be the plus package, which I’m currently running at 35% off, because it’s the beginning of the year, and I like to get momentum. So I think and that, for me includes image guidance as well and on image sales copy, because you need that. I gotta go into that a minute, you need to have a copy on your images by your title on Amazon, you need to have a copy for your images and your EBC A plus content section. I believe that usually runs between six and 800 depending on where I’m at. There are other people who are in the supplement industry or in the harder industries to break through on who charge 10 to 15,000. So for something like that, you’re probably looking between, I guess 615,000, depending on who you go with and you can go hire somebody on Fiverr and put up what I call, that’s probably like, a temporary listing right to gain some traction in terms of keywords. But you’re not going to rank well for keywords if you can’t convert those keywords into sales.
Norman 42:56
I just want to make sure I get this right. If we want to do titles, bullets, A plus pages now. So yeah, the old EBC it’s roughly around 600 to $800. Is that what you were saying?
Diane 43:13
With me yeah, at $600-800.
Norman 43:17
Okay, very good. That’s very reasonable.
Diane 43:19
Yeah, I would think so, I have a 10x guarantee. So that means that if for some reason that you don’t make $6,000-8,000 back, depending on the price at that point in time in the next three or so months, I go through and reoptimize until you do. So it’s not like I don’t think anybody else is offering a guarantee right now in terms of sales, copy and consulting.
Norman 43:39
That also includes the Vortex 3 guarantee, right?
Diane 43:43
Yeah, I will come and suck up your pet myself. No, I’m just kidding. I mean, I think that just coming out of from a small business family where everybody owns small businesses, I think guarantees are really important and I have a 97% success rate of hitting it out of the gate that guarantee out of the gate, that means 3% of the time I fail and I have to go through and re optimize. It doesn’t mean those people don’t make any money. It means that maybe they paid for the full launch package, which is $1500 and then make 15,000 back, then 13,000 back. I want people to come tell me because I’m gonna figure out how to get them to that 10x. It’s an integrity thing in my family. You know what I mean? We are not gonna take somebody’s money and not give them value back that’s at least 10 times greater. It comes also from, do you know Napoleon Hill? Okay, so think and grow rich, right? Okay. So that I mean that the more you help other people, the more money you make. That’s just kind of how it works, like energetically. I love the mindset side of things, the energetic side of things.
Norman 44:45
I love that. The more you help people, the more it comes back to you.
Diane 44:51
Yeah, do well by doing good. That’s how it works.
Norman 44:52
Yep, that’s right.
Norman 45:00
Alright Kels, next question. I’m sure there’s a bunch.
Kelsey 45:02
Yeah. Let’s see, Tony had one about brand ambassadors. Okay. How can I make our customers into brand ambassadors to post social media content?
Diane 45:14
That is a really great question. That’s one you pm me directly because there’s like seven or eight different strategies, it’s going to be based on what your goal is. Right? That’s a whole podcast in and of itself. Like, we could do a two hour podcast just on, here’s how you get people to go from not knowing you to loving you so much. That’s to tell everybody, right without having to use, I mean, obviously, there’s things like contests like wheel spins, right? These contests like giveaways, like meet your favorite person are obviously a thing. Free program like, there’s a lot of people using contests, but there’s other ways to go about doing it, where they become brand ambassadors. So, definitely pm me on that one.
Norman 45:55
So Kelsey, we’re also gonna have to notify Diane to come back on podcast to talk about that.
Kelsey 46:02
Yeah, I know everyone is loving you Diane. If you guys know someone who is an Amazon seller, ecommerce seller, go ahead and tag them in the comments, and let them know, or you can share this episode. But that’s a great way to help out a friend or something.
Norman 46:24
99% of the people are not talking about what we’re talking about in today’s episode.
Diane 46:30
That’s why there’s only so many people that rank on page one on Amazon or on Google, or it’s not even about keyword ranking. You can’t even rank keywords without getting good sales. That’s a huge issue that a lot of people have. They’re like free traffic. My goal is free traffic and I’m like, I love that your goal is free traffic. Nobody’s gonna give you free traffic unless you have sales first. So let’s focus on making dollars turn into baby dollars, bigger dollars. You want those Benjamin Franklin’s out there spitting out babies, right? Yeah and then we’ll focus on like, which keywords to rank for. Because once you’ve got those sales, it’s pretty easy to just start, like making variations and ranking for other keywords and all of a sudden, you’re dominating, because everybody else is trying to hit the big volume keywords and you’ve decided, Well, this is the strategic way to go about it. I’m going to sell first and pay my electricity bill and take my kids to Disneyland and buy whatever, hopefully I mean, always save 30% for your business just to, at least 30% to reinvest in your business. But, focus on sales, don’t focus on keyword ranking right away. That’s good. You can relaunch at any time and rank for other keywords across Yahoo, Bing, Google, Amazon, you can always rank for keywords again.
Kelsey 47:45
Okay. From Manny, if you put this big sticker on your package, what words are forbidden? Originally, the only first that was back one minute ago.
Diane 47:58
Okay, that’s a really good question. So there’s a loophole here, right? If you go to the USPTO, US Patent Office, right? This is if you’re still in the US, every country has one of these, something like it and you file for like 99 to $199, the tagline the original or the first or whatever you want to file for and sometimes you can get them for like 25 to $30 on discount sites and it’s not illegal. They can’t tell you what’s illegal, because nobody else has filed for that name. That’s a patent name. Right? So not to get an illegal I’m not an attorney. I was a paralegal. But that’s a loophole around it. The other thing is unless the way that FCC Law works, is until somebody can test it and says that you weren’t the original. It’s true, right? It’s not innocent until it’s like innocent till proven guilty. So, in terms of Amazon, is that illegal? No. Because if you present Amazon with a piece of paper that says, our tagline is The First da da da, The Original da da da right and with those hypnotic anchors, you don’t have to have that, you don’t have to go to USPTO you can play around with them and see which ones work best for you on your listing. But, if you’re really concerned about it with Amazon, you can get USPTO over like they outbreak Amazon across the map. But it’s the government. I mean, Amazon’s big, but they can’t tell you that you can’t call your product this, right? That’s how, you see those top sellers and they’re using the word fat burner. Right? That’s it. That’s in their product name. They just went to USPTO and spent $99 and got a patent on this is our product name and Amazon can’t tell them they can’t use it. So they rank for it.
Norman 49:40
I’ve got one that drives me crazy because I am in the bully stick market. Best bully stick.
Diane 49:50
Mm hmm.
Norman 49:51
That’s the name of the bully sticks.
Diane 49:53
Amazon will flag you but you give them a piece of paper, usually.
Norman 49:56
Best bully sticks and they’re killing it. They’ve probably sold, I don’t know $100 million worth of bully sticks but you can’t even use the word in, I got a letter from them because I said something about the best bully sticks. They’ve came back and said I was in,
Diane 50:18
Trademark a cease and desist. Yep. So unless they file The Best Bully Stick though, it’s going to be The Best Bully Stick if you go and file The Best Bully Stick or The Best Bully Stick then they can even look at the trademark first. They’re not infringing on your trademark for best but you are your honor infringing on their’s on The Best Bully Stick. I’m not illegal, it’s just something to check into.
Norman 50:44
Yeah. Alright, Kels.
Diane 50:47
Best Bully Stick, that kind of thing. Sorry go ahead.
Norman 50:51
No, you’re cut out. You’re just hanging for a sec.
Kelsey 50:55
Okay. So, we had a question about YouTube. To rank on YouTube, are we just loading a product video or some other advertising methods?
Diane 51:06
So that’s a really great question. I have two answers for that. One, if you’re just going to load a product video, go ahead. Make sure it is best on YouTube, you can use best or top or something, right? You want to create a comparison video for these are three videos that we’ve reviewed, or we’ve reviewed and this one, but you don’t want to make it seem like this is our product and it’s the best because we say so, right? You want somebody else to say so. You guys want somebody else to say so. The best strategy for this if you have a brand is to load not just videos about your product, but brand videos. How to videos, like how are you solving their problems? What else will solve their problem? For example, like I am in the industry with some products, right? Oh, we have brand that is new that is going to be launching videos on how to prepare your skin so the ink saturates better to, how to set chance to get to avoid
Norman 52:21
Hold it. Diane, you’re hanging. I’m not sure what it is. But your WiFi just kicked out.
Diane 52:29
Oh boy. Can we have a second here?
Norman 52:31
Sure.
Diane 52:33
Last time on the last webinar, I was on with Kevin King and an outlet caught on fire. I’m in a rental until I buy a bigger house and sell my other house up on orcas. That’s my fiance. But Derek, what’s up? He just came in to see if I’m still on the podcast. It looks like we’re good now. Can you hear me?
Norman 52:58
Yeah, it seems to be okay.
Diane 53:01
He just gives me a thumbs up like, is everything okay? He’s being funny.
Norman 53:07
Kels, are there any more questions?
Kelsey 53:11
Yes, there was one actually, I think this is more of a psychological question about colors. But let me see. What is the best color for a child’s product?
Diane 53:31
Whose parents are you selling to?
Norman 53:36
Very good.
Diane 53:36
How old are they? What’s their education level? You can almost do like that there’s a split in child products, right and there are the parents who are the traditionalist where you have the primary colors, the bright red, the bright blue, the yellow. They tend to be a little bit older generations, right, or generations that come from a different level of education and then there are the other parents who are always looking to show people that I’m doing what’s best for my child and so that’s constantly changing. So we have a group of parents who like very muted colors, and they don’t want to overwhelm their child’s nervous system and so it’s really gonna depend on who the parents are, because they’re the ones with the credit card. Now, if you start to talk about kids 12 and 13 and older, obviously, the more obnoxious the better. You know what it means? So, if you can, like meet from preteens to younger teens or more neon bright colors, that’s great and then you then you start to see the split again, just like you do with adults after kids are about 15-16 years old. They start doing the identity split. This is versus New York City.
Norman 54:44
So I guess this is really identifying those Five Ls building that persona out so understanding your audience.
Norman 54:53
Okay.
Diane 54:53
Definitely understand your audience. Yep and don’t assume anybody else knows what your audience is, and that’s why you don’t copycat. Right?
Kelsey 55:03
I think this is the last question that’s come in. For Amazon sellers, what kind of research do you do before reading a listing? To provide you with the research?
Diane 55:14
No, please don’t provide me with the research unless you already have it. So I do expect to know what I need images of you. If it’s for a product, if it’s for a service, like your packages, right? I need to know what your product is, if you know what the benefits are of those features, that’s great. Most people send benefits, which is very, very awesome. Because we don’t want to automatically assume that specific benefit and that you want us to talk about that benefit and when I say as it’s me and five kids, okay, so that’s going on, and a dog and my fiance, right? So, but then like there are people who do medical research, they already have it, feel free to send that along, I’m still gonna verify it. Because I don’t want you to get in hot water. Right? A lot of people think that there’s a source that’s like, Okay well, I read on shake.com that, let’s see here, like Brazilian grass powder is the most amazing thing on the planet and it helps you lose 30 pounds in 30 days and so they’ll send me that and I’ll say, Okay, well, this is not a double blind placebo based gold standard study and we can’t actually cite this. I used to work for the National Science Foundation, too. So I mean, if you send me a study, I’m going to check it and I look for other studies and things like that for supplements. So I mean, definitely send me any information that you have on it, on the product. I can’t do anything if you just send me like three features of your product. I can’t do anything if you send me the Alibaba link and have me go there and look through that, because they’re not accurate or still legally responsible for any information that you provide that goes into that listing, right? It’s still your product, you still need to read your listing and make sure that those are all you have. I’m now running off of a database called clickthat. So if something changes while we’re mid project, you just send me an email and so that everything’s all in one space. So I can see, okay, this has changed. So it’s no longer valuable in the listing. But, I mean, definitely, I expect some information, I have a questionnaire that people will receive almost immediately after they paid the website, or they pay their invoice. That’s all pretty much automated at this point in time. They just fill out the questionnaire. So you know what information you need, you can always pause it and take a PDF snapshot and come back and add more via email. I try to make it really easy, but you definitely need to provide some information like, you can’t just give me and I’ve had people do this, and they’re not real products, because just because it’s fun and if you just give me a ball of tin foil, right? I’ll come up with a bunch of different ways to sell it, obviously and I’ll come up with the features of it and I’ll come up with features you haven’t even imagined about your product first of all, that’s something weird that my brain does, which I think is really cool. But if I then you’re like, Okay, well, I really wanted to focus on these in your questionnaire, there’s going to be a huge time delay on that. We offer 365 days of unlimited edits. But it’s kind of like a line. So if you come back and you’re like, Oh, there are these 10 things I forgot to mention, that’s going to require edits and optimization, which is going to take a longer time. So that’s kind of the reason you want to put any information up front as much as you can. Okay, so there’s no time in your hands. Right?
Norman 58:26
Alright. So I have a pretty simple question, I think. But you’re on, you talked about you went very quickly through the claim no claim language. Can you explain that just a little bit more?
Diane 58:42
Okay. So claim no claim is, you’re essentially making a claim without making a claim on Amazon and according to the FCC and FDA, especially, New Zealand’s laws are stricter so are Australia’s but the FDA in the US specifically, you cannot make a claim about a product, right? You can’t make a claim about anything that is around the body and that means you can’t say directly, that this will burn 10 pounds of fat. You can’t say directly this will cure cancer. This will make your pimples go away. This will end your acne, eczema, etc. So claim no claim is a like a language pattern where you would say something like, well, we can’t say and then make the claim or while our lawyers won’t let us say make and then you make the claim and 1000s of happy customers say and then, say what the customers would say so it’s in the language of the person who would buy the product, right? So while we can’t say, while our lawyers won’t let us say this burns 1000 pounds of fat in two hours, that’s obviously ridiculous, but you get the point. 1000s of happy customers say that it’s helped them really achieve what they want to see in the mirror. Right? So claim no claim, you can’t get in trouble with the FCC. You can’t get trouble with the FDA and you can get in trouble with Amazon because you didn’t claim anything.
Norman 1:00:00
Got it.
Diane 1:00:02
And you’ve said our lawyers won’t let us say this.
Norman 1:00:05
Alright. So, I do have another question here and it’s about desktop versus mobile. Do you have a different language for desktop over mobile?
Diane 1:00:22
Different language?
Norman 1:00:23
Yeah. Is there something to grab somebody’s attention? So, and again, I think that your WiFi is out a bit, because I’m over talking and it looks like you’re talking, and then I’m over talking. So sorry about that, if I’m interrupting. But yeah, what I’m looking for is, Hey, Amazon is a search engine most of the time, and the majority of the time people search on their phone first, before they buy it. Should we be targeting a specific type of language, so that when you looking on your mobile phone, it’s different from what it would be like if you were just targeting your desktop, does that make sense?
Diane 1:01:04
It does make sense. So in terms of language, try to put your hypnotic feature anchor, it will use at least one word all cap with your hypnotic feature anchor and your title, that’ll help grab attention. On your image, when you’re using your image, make sure that you use, if you can use a boxer that has your bullet points and your seal on it, that’ll grab attention. Your first goal, your goal when you’re selling on Amazon is never ever ever just to get the sale. Right? It’s like a mass conglomeration of a whole bunch of little sales funnels. So what you’re doing is you’re trying to get them to click on the title and image first, that’s your goal. Can I make them? Can I pique the curiosity? Does this look cool enough? They will look at the price, right? Especially in mobile, where 40% of sales start and end on Amazon or 48% of all sales online, start on Amazon in the US and so then what you want to do is you want to look at your images. So on mobile, right, you have your title on one side, and then you have your images off to that side. I’m trying to do the opposite of me. Okay, so after this like, right, so people are looking at mobile, they have to scroll way down through a whole bunch of nonsense and fluff the Amazon decides to just drop on your listing including competitors, images, and people also bought and like all these massive distractions, right? It’d be like, if you threw a bunch of pictures of puppies and motorcycles in the middle of a sales page, it makes no sense except to make Amazon money. So when you’re on mobile, you have to really focus on creating high converting copy, like power copy, short, punchy, powerful, deep press. Sorry, can I say that here? That’s what I think in my brain, bring this copy on your images to the right by your title, because people are gonna see those first, or they see all this other fluff that Amazon is tossing on there, right? So make sure you have sales copy on your images, that’s high converting sales, copy the look through. If you don’t know what that means, you just need a little help with that, like, look through your competitors’ testimonials and their reviews and see which words like I said, start looking what people are looking for, right and put that on your images. A lot of people focus on images, the images that copy is just like having, like sticking somebody, I like to think of it this way, an image right there with that sales copy is like dropping somebody in court. Right and having the jury just try to guess what it is that crime they did and try to convict them, have the judge to convict them and then having tried to send them without knowing anything at all about the person, the case, or what happened, right? An image is worth 1000 words, and you only want them to have like, 10 out of those 1000 words. You don’t want to leave the other words, you don’t want to leave their interpretation of the image ro chance. Right? So use words to frame it.
Norman 1:03:51
There’s a ton of people on the podcast right now and there’s a ton of people that have been engaging with us. If anybody has a question that they’d like to come on to the podcast and ask Diane directly, please let Kelsey know now, and we’ll get you on. We don’t normally do this, but we’d love to have you on live if you would like to ask a question. So while that’s happening, let’s see. Alright, so I guess if you had an action step, what would you tell people? Like, step one, step two, step three, what should we do first? Outside of going in saying, Hey Diane, will you do my copy for me?
Diane 1:04:43
Yeah, outside of that. Yeah. So action step in order to make more money on Amazon. So, for products?
Norman 1:04:52
No, just in your research. So when you’re putting together your titles and your copy, are there any action steps as somebody should be taking?
Diane 1:05:04
To put it together?
Norman 1:05:5
To put it together.
Diane 1:05:09
The first thing I always start with personally is going and kind of snooping on other people in groups who would use that product, whether that’s with Facebook Audience Insights, going through testimonials, and reviews on Amazon, going through looking at like competitors doing on off Amazon, where they can charge like three times more for their product and their sales funnels. So do your research first, obviously. The second thing to do is write everything down, like when you’re writing a title, bullet points, or sales page or anything, free write. Do not worry about where the keywords are gonna go, do not worry about what people are gonna think of what you’re writing, please don’t worry about what people are gonna think about what you’re writing when you’re first writing, write like 15, 20, 30 bullet points, okay? They can go on your sales page or on your Amazon page and don’t delete any of that, you’re going to need that later. Okay and then once you have kind of combined your bullet points and gotten into where you want them, and you can start looking at how you can use the rest, like, because your brain is going to prioritize information, right? So, we know that our customers based on the tally system that we use are really going to be interested in knowing about these five things, it has to have these five things. So let’s make sure that the things that are the most important are in the space they see first, right? Whether it’s the images, or that’s the bullet points or your title, or your headline on your sales page, or the first 10 seconds of your VSL, whatever and then look at the rest of information and figure out where you’re going to place it in the rest of your listing, sales page, VSL, etc. The last thing you do is you go through and you infuse it with keywords, that’s the last thing you do is keyword infusion. Now, there’s two ways to make sure that you get keywords in, short bullet points that are keyword free, or titles that are keyword free, etc, etc and I use the like brackets, right and I write the word keyword in there that works for me, other and then you can go back and fill it in later because you’re going to move your keywords and things are in any way and you don’t want to write with keywords first and then lose the keywords. Right? Like, Oh, I forgot to include this keyword, right? So use a bracket keyword or let’s say it’s an Astros dancing supplement, just write the word Astros dancing supplement over and over and maybe choose a shorter word, like A.S. right as you’re writing, and then just go back there and replace that with the keywords that you want to use in the way that you want to the algorithm to pull them, right and then the final thing is always go through everything you do, cut out any fluff you can possibly find, zombie verbs like to be can be, etc. Make sure you power up every single word. So, instead of saying this is a nice stool, you would say something like, gorgeous, stunning, things like that, like power up the word. The only thing you get by using words like nice are friends, okay, you don’t get sales from things. Right? Again, no more friends, you want more money to go hang out with your friends. So power up is really important and then test it. Right? So the first thing like when you’re not a professional sales copywriter, when you don’t have like 10 plus years under your belt, you’re gonna run into this, did I do this right? This analysis paralysis. When you have a title and five bullet points in Amazon and a description, throw it up and test it. Give it at least two weeks, right? Two, three weeks is what I say, give it two to three weeks, you may be just really good at this and not know it, you may be really good. If you have a background in sales like high ticket sales, especially you might be really good at sales copywriting and you don’t even know it. So trust your gut and go test first and then when you do approach a copywriter, if you decide to do that to get that boost in conversions, and so the boost in sales, then at least you have data for someone to work with. Right? So they’re like, Okay, well we know that these keywords are working, these keywords weren’t working and we know that you were kind of spot on with your audience for this portion, but this is not and when you’re changing things, let’s say your split testing, only split change one thing at a time. Don’t go through and change like everything analytics, or split testing your title and your bullet points and all your images at the same time and see like, Okay, am I getting a dollar more or am I saving a dollar per my advertising spend per sale, and you’re testing things like only change the title and the bullets or if you’re doing yourself, change one bullet point at a time. Right? That’s matters to them. So are the three or five it’s like, hopefully, fewer than seven, keep it fewer than 12.
Norman 1:09:52
There we go. Alright. So it looks like and you’re almost off the hook Diane. So Yelchin’s got a question. Almost off. So Yelchin’s question is about the bullet points. So yeah, what type of bullet points do you prefer, short or long?
Diane 1:10:12
We can only do 100 care for short. As the opposition were in 250 to 350, it just depends on who you’re speaking to again, right and what type of product this is, what type of explanation? It really all boils down to, what do you have to say and how much do you have to explain to get people to buy your product, right? You don’t want to dump all your features, and all the benefits in the bullet points if you have 20 features and 30 benefits, because you’re just gonna have these long things nobody understands, right? In the supplement world, we’ve had bullet points that are like 490-500, because we’re listing out ingredients and what they do, right and people don’t always go and read through the description, obviously, you never know, right? But generally, it’s about 250 characters, there are people that it has to be under 100 characters, we’ve tested that, that’s false. We have a firm belief that it has to be higher than 165 for the title the other day, and like 150 for the bullet points, and people will make up numbers to get clout. That’s one of the things that we know is people will make up numbers. They’ll make up numbers to have a system because the system has clout. So I’ve never personally seen that there’s a certain limited number of characters that tests are better than others. It’s always based on who you’re selling, because you’re not selling the search engines, you’re selling people. Right? If the search engine bite your product, then you’d be selling the search engines and you’d say, this is the best 165 characters I’ve ever seen in a title. Right? So I’m gonna buy this, but they’re looking at bites not at benefits and transformation.
Norman 1:11:49
Oh, Radd. You have a question about emojis in front of the bullet. I don’t know if you agree with this. But I look at it as, get rid of the emojis. You don’t need the emojis if the copy is good.
Diane 1:12:04
We have seen it convert in a couple of different areas. One for the people who are really into things like manga, which are more kids and then some single adults, babies. So if you’re selling anything for babies, you can use emojis. Anything that’s like cutesy, right? Where they’re gonna be like, Oh my gosh, that’s so amazing. Oh, I love it. Oh, it’s a baby blanket. It has a bunny on it. Right? If you’re selling a supplement, if you’re selling like I said a lot of businesses dealing with the FDA. If you’re selling anything, have really good trust and believability and then I wouldn’t use emojis. There’s one kind of ishi area, okay. But ishi areas are pets devices, we’ve seen emojis boost conversions in pet supplies for some, we’ve seen emoji conversions for some. So it just really depends, but unless it’s the lovey dovey like you’re looking for that warm, fuzzy feeling, generally we’ll leave the emojis out of it.
Norman 1:13:09
Okay, so now you’re officially off the hook. How do people get a hold of you if you want to just mention your contact information again?
Diane 1:13:19
Sure. The easiest way to get a hold of me is actually I think it’s right there on the screen Kelsey has posted. If not, hypnoticamazoncopywriter.com and that’s my help desk for everything from if you want to grow your service business with sales copy and consulting or your Amazon eCommerce. I just funnel everything through there. I like efficiency, right? Other people if you know me, and you know me for a long time, you probably know me as nlphypnocopy.com. That’s been around for a long time too, same help desk, same person. So there’s multiple brands, but yeah, that’s the best way to get a hold of me and Facebook too, as well. It’s just Diane Boerstler on Facebook.
Norman 1:13:59
Fantastic. You killed it today, Diane. Now the other thing we have to do is see who won. So Kelsey.
Kelsey 1:14:11
Okay, let’s do it.
Norman 1:14:12
Let’s bring in the Wheel of Kelsey.
Kelsey 1:14:16
Okay, we got tons of people entering today. Okay, can you see my screen?
Norman 1:14:22
Yep.
Diane 1:14:23
Oh, that’s so cool. I’ve never seen it before.
Kelsey 1:14:26
All right, and I’ll shuffle them up. Okay, so here we go. Wheel of Kelsey in 3,2,1.
Norman 1:14:36
We’re gonna have to have a theme song or something going for this. Wheel of Kelsey
Norman 1:14:42
Tony!
Diane 1:14:44
The Tony Zagare?
Norman 1:14:45
Yeah.
Diane 1:14:46
Tony, have we worked together before? We can do two.
Norman 1:14:57
Are you sure?
Diane 1:15:02
Yeah. Why not?
Kelsey 1:15:12
Okay, I’m sharing my screen. Alright. 3,2,1
Diane 1:15:20
See now, I’m really into this. I love roulette. Do you guys play, do you know roulette?
Norman 1:15:23
Oh, yeah.
Diane 1:15:25
I played like 10 years. Marcia?
Kelsey1:15:30
Marcia.
Diane 1:15:32
Marcia. Okay, I’m sorry.
Norman 1:15:34
Very good. Well, these are absolutely great. I mean, they’re $500 packages each. So thank you again, Diane for just providing that, providing all the information today. Like I said, you absolutely killed it. So thank you so much.
Diane 1:15:53
I had a blast. Thanks for having me on.
Norman 1:15:55
Alright. No problem. We’re gonna get you back on talking about influencers and all that other good stuff. But I will book you right after the show. Alright. So Kelsey, where are you?
Kelsey 1:16:13
Here I am.
Norman 1:16:14
Alright. So that’s it. Anything else that you want to say?
Kelsey 1:16:19
Yes. So if you guys missed the first part of it, we do have an Airpod contest happening on social media. So you can find it on the Facebook group, The Lunch with Norm Podcast Facebook page and the Instagram page. Just follow the link, enter it. It’s one of those contests where if you subscribe to our YouTube or Instagram, you’ll rack up those points, I think get up to like 30 entries and you can always come back every day and get an extra point or two as well. So go there. It’s got all the information. It’s for US residents only. So that’s the one thing and yeah, we’re just looking to spread the word for Lunch with Norm and this is one of our little ideas.
Norman 1:17:08
You can always hit a like or smash the like or subscribe and all that stuff.
Kelsey 1:17:17
Yeah, sharing this episode to someone that you think could need the help. I think there’s like 50 golden nuggets.
Norman 1:17:25
Yeah. Diane just kept delivering. So anyways, one of the things for next week. So let’s talk about who’s coming up for Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I know you didn’t put it in the notes.
Norman 1:17:40
Monday we got Rob and Dawn from AccrueMe. Let me just pull it up. On Friday, we’ve got a big one. We got Kevin King coming back.
Norman 1:18:00
Very good. One job Kels, one job.
Kelsey 1:18:03
Alright, so Joe Valley.
Norman 1:18:07
Oh, Joe Valley. Okay so Quiet Light. Okay, very good. So we’ve got three really great speakers that are going to come on to talk about everything from finance to actually, AccrueMe is going to be talking about their new funding app. Joe Valley is going to be talking about evaluations and business and then you got Kevin King talking about everything. So join us next Monday, Wednesday and Friday, at Eastern Central time at noon, or Eastern Standard Time and are you saying are you going to interrupt?
Kelsey 1:18:42
Yeah, one little thing I haven’t read yet today. So for anyone that’s posted a review, we read a review every episode now and this is from Wedgieman from Australia. It’s always inspiring. I learned something from every podcast. Very inspiring. Thank you for sharing such good and relevant content. Thank you, Wedgieman.
Norman 1:19:05
All right, and thank you for the review.
Kelsey 1:19:08
Alright, and that’s it. I think.
Norman 1:19:11
That’s it?
Kelsey 1:19:12
Yeah.
Norman 1:19:14
Okay. Alright. So thanks again everybody for watching. Thanks again for all the engagement and we’ll see you next episode. So have a great day.
