#23: Optimizing Your Amazon Listing

Date: August 17, 2020

Episode: 23

Title: Norman Farrar introduces Emma Schermer Tamir, Owner and Marketing Expert at Marketing by Emma. She is a Passionate Word Weaver Seeking Engaging Environment to Create Verbal Textiles.

Subtitle: Your personal brand is a promise of quality, consistency and reliability to your clients

Final Show Link: https://lunchwithnorm.com/episodes/23-optimizing-your-amazon-listing-emma-schermer-tamir/

In this episode of Lunch With Norm…, Norman Farrar introduces Emma Schermer Tamir, Owner and Marketing Expert at Marketing by Emma. She is a passionate word weaver seeking engaging environment to create verbal textiles.

She transforms her insatiable curiosity into conversion-spiking copy. She helped over 700 businesses boost their sales and build their brands online. She created best selling product pages, Amazon listings and website copy.

If you are a new listener to Lunch With Norm… we would love to hear from you. Please visit our Facebook Page and join in on episode discussion or simply let us know what you think of the episode!

In this episode, we discuss:

• • 3:44 Emma Schermer Tamir’s backstory
  • 4:58 About Listing optimization
  • 6:28 The importance of using medium-tail keywords to boost sales
  • 7:29 Why image titles, price and reviews are important to an Amazon listing
  • 9:24 Differences in product visibility; Mobile vs. Desktop
  • 16:15 Tips on how to write the perfect product feature bullet points
  • 23:41 Establish strong brand name
  • 27:00 Improve content feature using A plus content
  • 30:28 Standard comparison chart
  • 42:52 Importance of labelling and packaging for the identification of the product

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Norman  0:02 

Hey everyone, I’m Norman Farrar, a.k.a. The Beard Guy and welcome to another Lunch With Norm, the Rise of the Micro brands.

Norman  0:22 

Alright, we’re broadcasting live on Facebook, YouTube and LinkedIn. Kelsey, tell everybody what they’re supposed to do.

Kelsey  0:30 

Alright, follow us on social media. You can see it in the upper corner here. We have Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, and we just released the podcast officially. So you can find us on Apple or Spotify, Podbean, anywhere you get your podcasts and visit our Lunch With Norm website. Brand new. Right. Very exciting.

Nomanr  0:52 

I want to do that to you over there.

Norman  0:57 

Alright.

Norman  1:00 

Yep. But anyways, we also have that website you were just talking about and yep, right there Lunch With Norm and it’s got some great information on it. We’ve got not only the guests, the full podcast, the BIOS, but any referrals that they make, books or any other types of references, so it’s all there. So check it out. The other thing I like to mention is our new newsletter that’s going out every Monday. So all you have to do is subscribe and you can go to any of the websites that I’m on and you can just subscribe and you’ll get a newsletter and I promise you the newsletter doesn’t suck. It’s actually good content from all over the e-com world. It’s not just Amazon and again, you’ll get some great content. So let’s see. I think that’s it for today’s updates, Kels.

Kelsey  1:57 

Yeah, yeah, I think keep it short today.

Norman 2:00 

Yeah, just keep it short. Alright, so I’d like to introduce today our guest, and I’ve met her. I think it’s almost been two years ago in Las Vegas and she is a listing optimization expert. Her name is  Emma Schermer Tamir and I can’t wait to talk to her. She’s gonna give us a ton of content about what we’re doing right, wrong, good, bad and ugly in our Amazon listings. So, if you have any questions, Kelsey, what do they do?

Kelsey 2:31 

Now? Just put in the comments, and we’d love to hear from you. If you just want to say, hi, you can let us know where you’re watching this from, what platform where in the world you are, we want to know. We’re looking to engage with you guys, make this a fun show. So yeah, enjoy the show and I’ll be leaving the screen and enjoy.

Norman  2:53 

Alright, so sit back, relax, grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the show. So Emma, how are you?

Emma  3:02 

Hi, Norm. I’m great and I loved your intro. So, that music, amazing. It transported me, made me think that I was not just in my home office.

Norman  3:13 

Oh, there you go.

Norman  3:16 

So I gotta give credit over to my son, Hayden. He was the one that wrote the little track and yeah, that’s great. So Oh, hey, Victor. Wow. It’s always great to see Victor. I don’t think he’s missed a podcast. Thanks for following. Oh, yes and the podcast does broadcast on LinkedIn now as of last week, so you can check it out there as well. So, Emma, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Emma 3:44 

Sure. So I am currently in Columbia, Missouri, which for those of you that don’t know where Missouri is on a map that’s right in the middle of the United States, and I co-own the company marketing by Emma with my husband and we help businesses from all over the world connect with their dream customers and create really engaging convergence spiking coffee.

Norman  4:09 

Well,  how long ago did you get involved with the business?

Emma  4:13 

So we started our business in 2016. I actually have a marketing background that goes far beyond that. I’ve worked for startups for fine dining for farms, all sorts of things. But we sort of officially took the plunge into having our own business in 2016.

Norman  4:34 

So I’m really curious about listing optimization and your view on it. There’re so many different people that say different things about listings that have to be like right now. Short titles, don’t have more than a few characters. Long titles, go to hundreds, stretch it out. What’s more important, is it the keywords or the copy in the title?

Emma 4:58 

So I always say that I’d like to expand that to even beyond just the title and I think that’s one of the most common questions that I get whenever I’m speaking about listing optimization and I think it’s particularly because a lot of people that have Amazon businesses, I think that the keywords are where they’re naturally more comfortable you can look at those numbers, and it doesn’t have any of those kind of soft humans sorts of things. People like finite answers and so the keywords are a really comfortable place to get a lot of that stuff and keywords are so important, keywords are what are going to allow you to be able to get the traffic that you need to be able to make the sales. So it’s not that one is more important than the other. They’re very much teammates, that you need to figure out how to make them play nicely together. So you don’t want to create content that’s just totally keyword heavy and doesn’t have anything that’s going to be interesting or relevant to the customer. But you also don’t want to write something that doesn’t have any keyword strategy in it, or is just a very basic keyword strategy that you’re going into your preferred tool. You’re finding the top, 10, 15 highest search words and calling it a day, you definitely want to do some more digging than that.

Norman  6:21 

Right, but still best practices to have the main keyword at the front of the listing, is that right?

Emma  6:28 

Yeah, main keyword and what I really like to do so especially if you’re launching a new listing, you have that opportunity to encourage the canonical URL so that you’re you have a higher likelihood of appearing in Google on those keywords as well, not just on Amazon and so that’s five words and then a dash. So if you can find a good sort of medium tail keyword that has that really perfect keyword within it. Then a couple of other keywords surrounding it to provide some added substance and specificity to your product, then that’s really the winning word to go with.

Norman  7:14 

Okay, so there’s probably a bunch of new Amazon sellers, as well as medium and experts. Let’s quickly go through the anatomy, what are you looking for to set up the perfect Amazon listing.

Emma  7:29 

So I like to go through this, like a customer would go through this. So first things first, as we were just speaking about the title, and your main image and so those are, besides that, your reviews and your price. Those are the only things that a customer is seeing when they are on a search page unless you maybe have some badges and what not and so the title and the main image need to really give the customer a clear idea of exactly what your product is and that it aligns with whatever it is that they’re searching for. So you don’t want to get too general with that to the point where you’re maybe ending up in kind of this confusing space where customers aren’t clear what your product is, and whether it’s a good match, like, let’s say that you’re selling something and most of your competitors are plastic and yours is stainless steel and the stainless steel element is something that’s going to be really important to a small group of people, you want to make sure to put that stainless steel detail more towards the front of your title, so that customers can quickly identify what your product is, and then click into it. So they’ve clicked into your listing and then from there, if you’re on mobile, the description is going to appear first, if you’re on a desktop, then your bullet points, your feature bullets are going to appear first and so where people will look will depend on the device that they’re on and then of course, you have the rest of your images as well. That can also be a really great tool to use to optimize your opportunity of making that sale.

Norman  9:06 

So you brought up a good point. So you’ve got your desktop and you’ve got mobile. So in your experience, are you optimizing now more for mobile? Because from what I understand more people, the majority of people are searching on Amazon through mobile than desktop.

Emma 9:24 

So my understanding, and maybe I’m wrong on this, but my understanding is that more searches are happening on mobile, but not necessarily more purchases. So I think people are doing a lot of Add To Cart, Add to Wishlist, sort of like in the moment, oh, yeah, I need that thing, searching, but not necessarily always completing that transaction on mobile. But regardless, I would encourage you to think about just optimizing for attention span. So whether it’s on mobile or on desktop is less relevant because what you don’t want these huge blocking text and so it’s not going to look good or translate well on mobile, but it’s also not going to be attention holding on desktop. So there’s definitely a mobile component there. But I would say, just as a general rule, it’s better to think in terms of how you can very quickly and effectively help people understand that your product fits their needs, and then go that little bit further to get them excited about wanting to purchase your product in particular.

Norman 10:33 

So Kelsey, we’ve got a question from Victor. What was that?

Kelsey  10:37 

Yeah. So Victor says, Emma, what’s your advice on optimizing iPerf on both desktop and mobile?

Emma 10:47 

I mean, everybody’s going to have their own sort of purchasing habits. So I would just say regardless of where people are looking and how they’re looking, you want to be sure that you’re organizing things in a way that there’s no extra effort needed in order to consume that information. So if I’m perusing through your bullet points, and I’m just seeing this blocky text, and nothing that’s differentiating the beginning of each bullet point from each other, except the bullet point itself, then that’s going to be something that I’m probably just going to scan right past. Whereas if you’re using, for example, some capitalized letters at the beginning of your header to give some clarity about what each bullet point is about, then, even if somebody is not making a lot of active effort to read those bullet points, it’s enough to create a break in those chunks of text to make it more manageable to skim. So I am always thinking about how can you optimize for skimability? How can you really organize things in a way that if I have a specific Buying Criteria, I’m not going to have to put in any extra effort to figure out whether your product is a good fit for me or if I should be going elsewhere.

Norman 12:14 

Interesting. So I just want to make a point here. This is really cool. I’m just noticing on the comments side, it’s coming in. This is the first time we’re covered. So we’ve got Nathan. Hey, Nathan, thanks for joining. He’s over on YouTube. Got a couple of people over on Facebook. So hey, Dave, old artillery buddy of mine and we’ve got people on LinkedIn. So that’s really great. We’re covering all bases. So I’m glad that we can make this happen on all these three different platforms. So going back to what we were just talking about, does knowing your demographic, or the age of the person, does that make a difference on how much copy you’re going to put into the bullets?

Emma 13:01 

Oh, that’s a good question. I would say.

Emma 13:06 

I’ve never thought about it in those terms and I would say no, I would say it’s more about from my perspective anyway, figuring out what important details need to be communicated and some products will require more explanation than others. Some will have finer details that you will want to spell out to your customer and age could factor into that, but I think that the customer profile is more complex than just an age thing and so there’s probably other factors that you would want to be thinking about beyond just that to determine how long things are and in general. My mind goal with any listing is always how can you say exactly what you need to say with the exact right amount of words and not one word extra. So it can be really tempting to want to write things that just sound good. But you want to make sure that anything that you’re putting on to your listing is either helping your SEO efforts. So some sort of keyword, or is helping to push the sale in some way, whether that’s providing a key detail, or identifying what the problem is that you’re solving or something that’s helping to push that conversation forward.

Norman  14:42 

One of the things that we try to do is if we get to know the customer, especially the demographic, we find, let’s say we’re targeting somebody between 25 and 35. We usually have very short to the point bullets because, and we try to put, of course we try to put, make it engaging, but also have keywords in it. But we keep it nice and short, because we know probably they’re going to be on mobile, probably they don’t spend a lot of time reading back, just skimming. So that’s why I asked the question because maybe I’m looking for a product that fits more of a 45 to 65. They want to know, maybe more information. They’re not used to just skim skim, skim, skim, skim so that’s the reason I was asking that and plus on top of that on mobile, it just looks a lot better if there are just smaller bullets. But we got a couple more questions here. So Kels, what does Victor say? I say this because I can’t read a bloody thing on my screen.

Kelsey 15:51 

So Victor is saying, meaning I moved from title to main image to bullets on desktop, or as that experience is different on mobile, particularly with ABC? And then we also have a comment that Nathan is still confused about the title still.

Norman 16:08 

Okay, so we’ll hook around to Nathan’s question in a second. So maybe we can explore Victor’s comment.

Emma  16:15 

Yeah. So I would say that when you’re thinking about your bullets and your description, and that’s really where the main difference is going to be when it comes to the device that you’re on. It’s really about understanding how each of those sections of a listing can best function. So your bullets should be those five most important things about your product and you should really work hard to make each bullet very focused on only one point and not trying to add anything more. A lot of times I’ll see people writing their bullets and the first part of their bullet will be about one thing and then the last part of their bullet will be about something completely different and so if you’re thinking about somebody that is quickly looking through and scrolling your listing, if that’s an important detail that you’ve shoved at the end of the third bullet, they’re not going to have any likelihood of seeing that. Whereas your description, whether it is a basic description that you’re using, some simple HTML tags, which hopefully you’re doing to help create some breaks in the text to make it more readable. Or if it’s A plus content, that type of content is well suited to things that your bullets aren’t as good for. So let’s say that you’re selling a product and it comes with multiple components. Your description is a place to really detail exactly what comes in it because your bullets don’t provide a really great space to do that. Your description can also be a good opportunity to hone in on that main problem that you’re trying to solve and even utilize a little bit of storytelling, or if you have a plus content to then begin to build out your brand story a little bit, so that you’re not just only selling your product and then with all of that said, those really important details, you should find a way to include them in both. So whether somebody is looking at one part or the other, they’re getting those crucial details that they need so that they’re not starting to feel confused.

Norman 18:29 

Yeah, so Victor’s saying something about agreeing with what you just mentioned, with the first bullet, but here I go, I can’t even see you again.

Emma  18:40 

I think it’s tough when mobile only shows the first three, sometimes it’s not even mobile. I’ve even seen a desktop where they have the arrow that you have to click to read the rest of the bullets. So, there’s a concept from journalism called the inverted pyramid and that’s the idea that back when they, you know when print was the main thing that they were doing and sometimes they need to just lob off part of the story in order to make it fit because they’re putting together the newspaper until the very last moment. So the inverted pyramid is essentially the most important information is at the top and then the information goes in descending order to the least important so that even if you had to chop off the bottom of a story, people would still have the most important information and so you can think about your your listing information in the same way you don’t want to save those gems for the very end because most people’s attention isn’t going to go that far. You want to lead with the most important start with a bang and then have those other details that are still important but maybe not as important to as many people.

Norman 19:49 

So one of the things with bullets, we’re gonna get back, Nathan, to the title, but with the bullets. I think a lot of mistakes are made,  people are trying to put too many tech specs, into the first or second, who cares? People need to be sold. It’s all about marketing. So I like at least, there’s features and there’s benefits, what’s the benefit, what’s going to be the pain point that’s going to be solved to get people to, okay, if they know that this is going to solve an issue, they’re going to read on a little bit more and if you put that at the top, and then you kind of filter down the first, second, third, exactly what you’re saying, but the like the main, the most important bullet should be up at top don’t make it like, don’t be boring. People are reading, I mean, humans are reading this, it’s not the algorithms. So get them to be engaged and I want to go back even one step further. So going back about iMotion, so when I take a look at a weighted page, if I look at everything above the fold on Amazon, the very first thing is actually going back to the search page, forget the title, I believe, this is just my opinion, but if you don’t have the most incredible image, so you spend the money on the image, you go to a product photographer, you don’t take it on your iPhone, you have great lighting, it’s the proper lens, everything is perfect. You fill the frame, which I see people not doing, and that’s what’s going to get people interested. So now they get to your listing, that is probably waited, in my opinion, waited the heaviest. Now, is the title engaging? So again, yes. What are we selling? Is there something about the pain point that we can put in there? You know, we talked to Nathan and he’s still a little confused about the titles. So as Emma said, if you have a let’s take bully sticks, for example. So if I have a keyword and maybe it’s odorless bully sticks, I want to be able to get the canonical. So I might put in natural grass fed, odorless bully sticks, okay, that’s a bunch, maybe too much but then  I’ll put a colon there and then a space. What’s that going to do? It’s going to take those five words, and it’s going to put it into the canonical. So the URL so it’ll look good when you’re searching for it. I’ll give you an exact example. So I’ve got this natural soap product. So all use natural handmade, blah, blah, blah, lavender soap. So there’s five words, but instead of just starting off again with another keyword, I’ll say infused with so natural lavender soap infused with essential oils, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and then I might end it off with a couple of more words, make it engaging, okay, oh, it’s infused. Why? Instead of bringing in the ingredients. So just using these types of words that just people love and it’s all about copy. So it just doesn’t become another list. Like another title. I don’t know about brands though. So I’ve always been the one unless Amazon forces it because they have the word brand. Now, if you’ve noticed, right, they’ve changed the word. Like right underneath it shows the brand. I’ve taken out the brand from in front of my listing, so I get those extra couple of keywords or characters that I can use for keywords. So do you do that?

Emma 23:41 

Yeah, I do that most of the time. Every so often Amazon will kind of force you to follow the rules of putting the brand name first. But if you can get away with not, I would really encourage it most of the time. The exception being if you have a really recognized brand name, then it may be worth adding at the beginning. But otherwise, a lot of times the brand names aren’t really contributing to a stronger understanding of what the product is. Sometimes the brand names are even a little bit confusing and so putting that farther along is, is allowing you to have space to really hone in on what the product is, which at this phase of interacting with the customer, that’s the most important. They’re wanting to figure out whether this is a good match for their search query. They’re not looking into who you are as a brand quite yet.

Norman  24:42 

So going back to the way that felt, yeah.

Kelsey  24:45 

Can I jump in here? We had a comment from David, I can read it for you. So for pictures on the sales page, there are times that the files are too big for mobile download. Is there a particular format then gives quality in a small enough for fast loading?

Norman 25:06 

Well, typically, if you’re uploading any images to Amazon, here’s this. I don’t know if you know this, but you put your keyword in it, your primary image should have your ASIN and then you could put a keyword in it. So they’re searchable. But yeah, what I’ll do is the images that I’m uploading, they’re 1000 x 1000 pixels, and they’re low res. Yeah, there’s 72. They can be high quality images, but because it’s digital, you just have to upload a 72 DPI, and that should be fine. That should keep the image size really low. So hopefully that answers your question, Dave. So going back to the anatomy, and that’s going over to the most important part would be the image, you’ve got the title, now you’ve got the pain points solved in your bullets. So the reason why that area is so important is because that’s above the fold and now you’ve got the next point that would be the frequently bought together. So if you’ve got multiple products, you can link them together. And again, if there’s three really good quality pictures, that’s going to attract, I believe that was 33% of the sales. Then you’ve got you still have the person interested as they scroll down and you get to a plus. A plus is not a book. So if you’re writing this and it’s boring, horrible content, you’re gonna get like if they’re on the fence, this is where the customer is on the fence. So they’ve already scrolled down below the fold down frequently bought together. Now they’re at your A plus page, which used to be the enhanced brand content. This is where you can get the person interested to read a little bit more, I use a ton of bullet points and really great photos here as well. Emma, what do you do with A plus?

Emma 27:00 

I’ve seen so many really cool examples depending upon what the product is. So I would say, you don’t, there’s no one size fits all with how to use A plus well. So for the example of something that’s maybe a little bit more difficult to understand, and it has a lot of unique design features, your A plus content can be a really fantastic way to go into some of those details. It’s not just this long list of text or photos that are a little bit confusing. Instead, you have the opportunity with a lot of great modules to combine text and imagery together so that you’re really helping people have a solid idea of what your product is. But because there’s imagery there, even if your product isn’t super complex, it’s still a great way for you to show people engaging with your products, I see so many times A plus content that’s just a bunch of different angles of product shots and they’re not utilizing any lifestyle imagery and your A plus is such a great space to do that if you have an engaging brand story, then it can be a fantastic way to really start to build that relationship beyond just selling the product itself and I’ve seen some phenomenal examples like one that comes to the top of my mind right now is Black Rifle Coffee Company, which they’re a veteran owned Coffee Company. What I find so fascinating about their Amazon listings, is their A plus content is almost exclusively focused on the brand themselves and what that is doing is it’s not just helping to get people excited about buying that coffee right now, but it’s getting them really bought in and invested into the brand itself and whether that’s wanting to explore some of the other roasts that they sell, whether they’re so excited by what they’re doing that they want to buy some merchandise as well, or it’s just a brand that they know that the next time that they’re searching for coffee, they’re going to put Black Rifle Coffee Company into the, into the search bar, rather than just searching whole bean medium roast coffee and taking whatever comes up first. So that’s not necessarily the right path for everybody but it is something to consider how you can utilize this space not just to sell your product, but to sell your brand and maybe even some of your other products as well.

Norman 29:37 

That’s excellent, actually, that’s a nugget, what you just said, because when you think about it, Amazon right now, it’s all about micro brands and if you’re not utilizing that space, in A plus, then you’re missing that opportunity. Because it’s about getting your brand out there in front of people. Using the listing, using sponsored products, using Facebook, whatever it is, but you’re building the brand and what better opportunity than to have it in a place where you’ve got tons of exposure, as well as you know, you take one more step and you can go to a AMZ store, right? So you want to put that brand in front of the store but a lot of people don’t do that they just focus on if it’s a bar soap, it’s the soap and not the brand. So, great point.

Emma  30:28 

Well, and if you’re selling a bar of soap so how many times are you also selling a lotion, or maybe you sell a soap and you have a soap that’s for sensitive skin, you have a soap that’s for psoriasis, and you have a really heavy duty soap for people that are working outside in the dirt all day long, so those three soap bars are all going to be suited to a different kind of person and that’s so there’s that comparison chart, the standard comparison target module, I think is what it’s called for a play content and it’s such a great tool for a few different applications. So you have it as an opportunity to cross promote other products, like let’s say that you have, you’re selling this lavender soap and you also have a lavender lotion and maybe even a lavender pillow spray for getting people to help relax before bed and so that comparison chart could be a great place to show off the rest of the complimentary product line. But it could also be used like I was just saying and interrupted myself  to help clarify the differences between products because there are so many times that I see people selling products and even for as a customer, where it can be really confusing to pick out what separates them and what makes them different from each other. So having that chart that really easily aligns what those products are and who is right for, can make sure that you’re matching people to the correct product in your line so that they’re not mistakenly buying something that’s actually not fitting for their needs and so then they’re going to return it and who knows if they’ll end up purchasing the right one from you, or if they’ll go with one of your competitors, or whatever the case may be.

Norman 32:20 

So I’m just looking, Victor asked an interesting question. What about non square images better optimized for mobile 100%? So yeah, I’m gonna eat my words. I say fill the frame a 1000×1000. But if your demographic, again is more towards people using mobile phones, which most are? Yes, absolutely. Victor, my opinion? Yeah, try to optimize for mobile phones. Okay, so here’s a tough question. I’m gonna put you on the spot. Okay. Alright. Yeah. So we have a plastic shoe stretcher plastic shoe stretcher all from the same supplier, how do you differentiate your listing?

Emma  33:10 

So that’s a great question. I would need to do some research because I feel like you intentionally chose a product that I probably feel like I know I’ve little about as possible. So is this shoe stretcher, Is that something that you would use for like a leather shoe that needs some breaking in with the application?

Norman 33:29 

No. Well we can use anything we can use at home, we can use both sticks, we can use soap. Any products because there’s so many people buying from the same supplier.

Emman  33:39 

Yeah, all the time and I think it’s something that’s particularly challenging on Amazon because if you have your own website, you’re not competing directly side by side with other people. But on Amazon, you have the same product, probably a similar price point and so it can start to be really really difficult for a customer because also Amazon sellers love to kind of coffee, whoever’s doing the best and so you get these listings that look almost identical and from a customer’s perspective, what can be more frustrating than that? Then looking at all of these products that are all exactly the same, and you’re scratching your head left wondering, how do I choose and then maybe they don’t choose or they just go with the one with the most reviews, because that’s the only thing that they can utilize to help differentiate themselves. So that’s where your listing becomes even more important than it was already and  there are so many different ways that you can market a product. That’s the same product to different people. So let’s say that we’re taking this shoe stretcher that I don’t really know what it’s meant for, but there are a few clear applications that everybody you uses it for, but most people are really specific or not specific and they’re just saying, Oh yeah, it’s a shoe stretcher, but nobody’s really claimed ownership of that one particular use for it and so that’s one approach that you could take is just saying this is specifically for this. Like another example could be, let’s say like an orthopedic pillow that you use for your chair and most people are saying, Oh, this, this pillow, you can use it in the car, you can use it at your home office, you can use it when you’re sitting watching television and so everybody selling this product is something that can be used for all of the time. But what if you specialize it and you made it, yours was the office pillow and so all the people searching for office pillows, and all of your imagery is really professional and you’re not trying to kind of cast this wide net, but instead you’re getting very specific with a segment of the people buying your product, so that you’re not just trying to compete with everybody selling for everything, but you are the leading chair pillow for people that need to sit on it for eight hours a day. Right. So that’s, that’s one thing that I would really encourage you to do and it can be sort of difficult to figure that out. So taking a step back and figuring out who are all of the different types of people that would be purchasing a product like this and then seeing how you can really hone in on a segment or a few segments that may not have anything directly targeting them and their interests or addressing their needs. If you’re feeling a little bit stuck about how to do that. Even just spending some time diving into your competitors reviews and seeing how people are interacting about these types of products. Even going off Amazon, to forums on Reddit, on Quora, if there are special forums just for that particular niche that you’re selling to, to start to understand who the people are that you’re selling to, because if you’re just trying to explain, okay, this is the very best product, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and you don’t have a clear idea of who you’re selling to, then it’s just kind of putting on a bunch of fancy words without necessarily having this substance that’s going to make it compelling and interesting and engaging with your target customers.

Norman  37:38 

One of the things like with copy, one of the things that we’ve done to differentiate sometimes it’s just simple packaging. So packaging for like a bar of soap, dead sea mud, premium dead sea mud, and then dead sea mud for mutters and that actually goes into what you were talking about with a copy. So we targeted a premium, the average dead sea mud, and then one that was much more expensive for people who like that crazy sport of mudding. So get cleaned with mud and it was in a different package, different price point. So that’s just one way that we did. So you’re bang on. I can agree with you more is that yeah, go in find those little things that people might say are positive or negative and spin it and yeah, just to be a little bit different. Now. How about the mistakes people are making?

Emma  38:36 

I think we’ve touched on some of them. So definitely being overly wordy is probably one of the biggest mistakes I see. Or on the other side of that, not including basic information. I mean, there are just certain details that customers have to know about a product, whether it’s the dimensions or like from a customer’s perspective, I feel like every time I’m searching for some sort of tech product, whether it’s an external hard drive or a microphone, finding out whether what a product is compatible with is surprisingly challenging for a lot of these products, you would think that that’s just a basic detail that any tech product would incorporate into their listing. But those basic details so often just get forgotten. I would say another huge mistake is not really capitalizing on your listing images, real estate, and making those good sales tools. So, often, I’ll be looking at a listing and the only photos that I see are just different angles of the product itself. So if it’s something that somebody would carry or where there’s nothing to demonstrate what it would look like actually on a person, if it’s something that you would hold or something that size would be very important. There’s nothing to show how that relates to an actual human or in the world and anyway and your images can be such a great tool to communicate so many things simultaneously and so by weaving in some text into some really great images, you can make sure that even those people that are a very casual buyer that aren’t necessarily going to be reading your listing will get those important details that they need to know. Another huge mistake I see is, this especially happens when people are writing their own listings, is they kind of fall into what they think marketing writing should sound like and I call this the late night infomercials, sort of, so it’s like, amazing, the most innovative and it’s a shoe stretcher, like how innovative tennis shoes, maybe shoe stretches, I’m talking poorly about a product that I know nothing about. But I think that it’s a really easy trap to fall into and especially when you’re trying to differentiate your product. A lot of people think that the only way to do that is just to use this really over the top language and first of all, people can see right through that. But second of all, if your product isn’t truly the most innovative or the best at something, you shouldn’t say that, because all you’re doing is creating unrealistic expectations, and potentially setting yourself up for bad customer experiences, which isn’t just damaging to that initial sale of you know, maybe turning it into a return but that could lead to negative reviews, bad feelings about your brand as a whole and those are things that you want to avoid to the best of your abilities.

Norman  41:57 

So it’s kinda like when you go into any major city and you go into the little restaurant that has the world’s most famous coffee. Yeah, yeah. Okay, I get it.

Emma 42:09 

Alright back in the days when we traveled with just guidebooks, it was easier to fall for those things. But now that we have the internet at our disposal, no matter what corner of the planet we’re in, then we can be more informed shoppers, and we can see through what’s just the tourist trap and what is actually the hidden gem that is worth going out of your way to try.

Norman  42:35 

Right. Again, going back to an Amazon listing be a bit more real. Yeah. Okay, so you are so off the hook. There’s only one question left. So any tips, anything that you should mention that we have not covered today?

Emma  42:52 

I would say regardless of where you are in your journey, whether you’re getting ready to launch your first product, or whether you have a huge catalog and you’re signing across many channels, this idea of brand is something that’s so important and you can see through a lot of the changes that Amazon is making right now that that brand, the brand itself is becoming more and more important and so rather than being caught off guard by that and finding yourself three years from now, still with with a lot of uncertainty on that piece, take some time to start to investigate in yourself and in your business about what it is that you’re really trying to create and think about how you can begin to incorporate that into all of the different pieces of your brand and your product experience. So like Norm was talking about with the packaging, even with the language that you’re using and making sure that everything is working to gather to tell a really cohesive story so that whether you just want to be the very best selling product on Amazon, or you want to set yourself up to be able to sell successfully on a variety of other channels, you have the ability to make that jump and have a really solid story that people are going to be excited about.

Norman  44:33 

Okay, fantastic. See, that wasn’t too bad.

Norman 44:38 

Alright. Um, so how do people get a hold of you?

Emma 44:42 

They can find us on our website marketingbyemma.com. We’re on Facebook facebook.com/MarketingbyEmma. I’m on Facebook as my personal page, LinkedIn. We’re also happy to offer free listing analysis. So if you’re kind of scratching your head wondering whether your listing is doing the things that you needed to do, or you think it is, but you want somebody else to take a second look and give you an opinion. If you go to our website MarketingbyEmma.com/freeanalysis, and you fill out that form and we’ll give you some feedback. Oh, looks like we have one other question.

Norman  45:25 

Okay, what does that say Kels?

Kelsey 45:28 

Should the first bullet point try to convince why yours is best or should I get into features?

Norman 45:35 

Benefits?

Emma 45:36 

Why is it best? Yes and not saying why yours is best. So they, Zig Ziglar who is like one of the best salesmen ever. I love his concept of good sales is helping people make the decision, that’s actually the best decision for them. So it’s not trying to convince them to do something that isn’t good for them. It’s really helping provide them with the information so that they can have confidence and know that your product is a good fit. So it’s not about just having your first bullet be, this is the very best shoe stretcher. It’s thinking about why would somebody really want a shoe stretcher not just to satisfy that immediate need? But what are the longer term bigger benefits that somebody can enjoy by regularly utilizing your shoe stretcher and how can integrating that into their whole routine really positively impact their lives.

Norman  46:45 

The other thing too, if you try to get people the impulse buy, you’re going to get an impulse buy client or customer. So,  exactly what you just said about Zig Ziglar. So, if that person decides, like it’s sold, you’ve done a great job on selling the person and they buy your product and let’s say it’s a bar of soap. I hate using the customer journey, everybody uses customer journey. When they get when they get their bar of soap, they see the brand the brand sells, and it’s equal. You didn’t oversell it on the site, you know the old amazing this, the best this? Well, then you’ve probably got a client or customer, you’ve got somebody that’s going to buy into the brand because you didn’t oversell. If I went and I oversold the soap, they get it and it’s not as good. Then I probably got a one time order instead of a lifetime customer.

Emma  47:50 

Yep. Right. Couldn’t say it better myself.

Norman  47:53 

There you go. Well, you told me before the call, so..

Norman 47:58 

Alright, so I think That’s the end of it. If you do have any other questions, just post it on our Facebook page or any of the just post the comments and we will get back to you. So that’s it. So, Emma, thank you for being on the podcast today.

Emma  48:13 

Thank you Norman. It was a lot of fun and now I’m gonna have to go look up shoe stretchers to investigate.

Norman  48:20 

I sell them going by, No I don’t.

Norman 48:25 

Alright, so thanks, everybody for listening to loot twist today on Facebook and YouTube and LinkedIn. We’re gonna be posting everything in whole as well as in shorter clips on Norman Farrar, a.k.a. The Beard Guy, and the full podcast will be on YouTube later on today.

Norman 48:45 

So Kelsey, what do we do?

Kelsey 48:48

Follow us on social media and before you guys check off, or leave this livestream, please give us a like or share. That would be even better. A big difference if you could just hit that little like button in the bottom corner.

Norman  49:04 

That’s where you say ring the bell.

Kelsey 49:07 

If you’re on YouTube, subscribe.

Kelsey  49:09 

We are on Apple podcast. So if you like listening if you have a commute at any time, subscribe to us on Apple. We also have LunchwithNorm.com officially launched last week. So all of our episodes are up there with videos, BIOS, descriptions, any links that guests have said, or books, recommendations, everything is up there. But if you prefer watching the videos, you can go to YouTube, okay? So all the episodes are up there full, full length episodes, short episodes, everything you ever want.

Norman  49:51 

Remember, we’re trying to build a community and it’s not just about Amazon, it’s about online selling. It’s about brand building. Social media, digital marketing, pretty much anything to do with e-commerce. So if you do have questions, please post them we will get back to you and who knows if you have any ideas about podcasts, let us know and we’ll get some experts on to talk about that. So and remember, subscribe to the newsletter, it doesn’t suck. Alright, next Wednesday or this Wednesday, we’ve got Steven Pope on and we’re going to be talking about SEO. So that’s going to be interesting, something that we don’t talk about or hear about too often and again, that’s this Wednesday at noon, Eastern Standard Time. So thank you, and enjoy the rest of your day.

Kelsey  50:42 

Thank you, everyone.