In today’s episode we discuss what Q5 is and why no one is talking about Q5. We dive into why amazon brands should care about “Q5”, and how to best leverage this period. Facebook Ads expert Lauren Petrullo joins today’s Lunch With Norm. Lauren is a wife, friend, sister, dog mom and Facebook ninja. With over 10 years of digital marketing experience and passion for helping brands, she has worked for and with some of the most known Fortune 500 brands. Often known as the ‘destruction queen’ as she is brought in to evaluate assets, sometimes with sledgehammering brutal honesty.
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Episode: 225
Title: Norman Farrar Introduces Lauren Petrullo, Digital Marketing Consultant for Ecommerce Brands on Shopify in the Baby, Beauty, & Food Space
Subtitle: “How To Take Advantage of Q5 Advertising”
Final Show Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHaBjeru3V0
Today’s show we talk about what is Q5 and how to best leverage this time of selling. Lauren Petrullo is an experienced digital marketer with a passion for helping others with the truth, often known as the ‘destruction queen’ she evaluates assets sometimes with sledgehammering brutal honesty.
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Norman Farrar 0:02
Hey everyone, it’s Norman Farrar, aka the beard guy here and welcome to another lunch with Norm the Amazon FBA and Ecommerce podcast. Okay today’s show, we’re going to be talking about something that not a lot of people have heard about. And that’s how to take advantage of Q five advertising. You’ll be surprised once you hear from our guest, who by the way, is a wife, friend, sister, dog Mama is a Facebook ninja. She’s also the founder and CMO of mongoose media, and she’s worked for a ton of fortune 500 companies and their brands in the past. And she’s that no holds. She is a no holds barred kind of marketer, no holds barred kind of marketer that believes in conversations lead to conversions. And please welcome Lauren Patrullo to our show today. But before we do that, here’s a quick word from our sponsor. Thank you ZEECO for sponsoring this episode of lunch with Norm. Are you looking to take your ecommerce business from local to global, you can with the help of z and their brand new app. That’s right, you can track live shipments with push notifications. Get detailed lead times for each stage of your shipment, and store all compliance and VAT reclaimed documents in the palm of your hand. All while listening to lunch with Norm. Ready to expand your Ecommerce empire. And take your Amazon FBA business global. Use the link in the description to learn more about Z’s new app that’s now available on desktop and mobile. That’s zee.co. zee.co. Alright, we’re back. And where is the Boy Wonder?
Kelsey 2:06
Hello, hello.
Norman Farrar 2:08
Hey, how’s it going?
Kelsey 2:09
Hey, I’m doing pretty good. How are you?
Norman Farrar
Good. Good.
Norman Farrar 2:12
I don’t know. I think we might be having a little trouble with your internet again today. Hi, I figured it out. December the first we’re gonna have better Wi-Fi. Because I think that mustache is causing all sorts of interference. There’s a lot of interference with that and probably with your dating life as well. But anyway, so what do you gotta say today?
Kelsey 2:39
All right, smash those Like buttons. If you can understand me, I help my wife I hold through for this and gets a little better. But
Norman Farrar 2:46
yes, actually, this is just like those tennis back in the 60s. Yeah.
Kelsey 2:52
But I welcome everyone. Hope you enjoy today’s show. We’ve got a great one today. So I have one thing I want to let our beard nation know. We’re looking for reviews on our Facebook page and our Google profile. So I’ll throw the links in the comment sections. But we’d really appreciate it if you guys could leave us a review, either on the podcast. So if you listen to Apple podcasts, Spotify podcasts, if you can read a review on Google, either one of those is fine. But we’d really appreciate that if you could do that if you like, if you like it, of course, if you hate it, maybe just you know,
Norman Farrar 3:32
don’t don’t leave in a review. Just please, please.
Kelsey 3:35
But other than that, I hope you guys enjoy the show. Share this out to any groups that you think might enjoy it. We’re going to be talking about a whole bunch of cool stuff today. And welcome Simon we got rad Andrew. Andy Manny from Germany. It’s great to see everyone. Let us know what you’re buying for Cyber Monday and Black Friday. Did you get anything good? How’s your selling been going? Let us know. I’ll be hanging out in the comment sections. And yeah. And thank you, Facebook user find out who this is. But uh, yeah, awesome.
Norman Farrar 4:11
All right. So just a quick note that we do have the the news letter up, ready to go. And if you’re interested in it, it’s a newsletter that really doesn’t suck. It’s all content. You just sign up for it either on lunch with norm or at Norman farrar.com. And every Monday we come out with new content. And if you find that the content isn’t sufficient, you can blame my other son Hayden and complain to him, but so far, no complaints. Alright, so let’s sit back. Relax. Grab a cup of coffee. Enjoy this episode. Welcome, Lauren. Hi, hey, how’s it going?
Lauren Patrullo 4:54
It’s going well, it’s Orlando, Florida, so it’s nice. Oh, for anyone doing their side Monday chopping
Norman Farrar 5:01
the knife out of my back. Yeah, I’m up, you’re freezing and you’re in Florida. Nice.
Lauren Patrullo 5:08
Well, I almost wanted to like open with like a hair mustache, but it was nowhere near the same level.
Norman Farrar 5:13
You don’t probably be better than Chelsea’s. So just I’m just saying. Okay, so you know, for people who don’t know who you are, can you just give us a really brief intro? What? Who you are what you do?
Lauren Patrullo 5:28
Sure. So I’m Lauren fistula, I run a digital marketing agency that specializes in E commerce. We work with a lot of beauty and food brands specifically, and we drag a lot of external traffic into their Shopify Ecommerce stores. And we work on SEO, PPC, marketing, automation, design, development, all that stuff. So it’s a nearly full stack, digital marketing agency, and I am the one that pays all the bills.
Norman Farrar 5:55
Ah, there we go. Okay. I’m just noticing this is Andrew Smith, congratulations. I don’t use I can’t usually read the comments. They’re usually too small. But when I see a number like 20 600%, that’s great. Congrats. And you know, for anybody who’s listening today, let us know, was it good, bad or ugly? Don’t be afraid, I remember last, last Black Friday, it was horrible for a lot of our accounts. And so I like to hear what you’re doing this year for us, overall, has been much better than last year. But we we took a whole different approach, going into Black Friday. So we don’t know what Cyber Monday is going to bring us yet. But so far, so good. And you have some really great news that you were just talking about before coming on. So I don’t know if you want to share that. But like, what’s what Cyber Monday looking like for you and your clients right now?
Lauren Patrullo 6:51
Sure. So I can talk about two skincare brands or beauty brands that we work with one brand, this is, you know, a brand that did about $40,000, last year, during the month of November, and we surpassed with just our efforts alone over 110,000 before Black Friday. Well, because we did some like pre planning and expanding how long that Black Friday period is. And then another brand when I was specifically referencing, we were doing, you know, their PPC advertising around $12,000 a month, we kicked it up to almost $50,000 For the month of November, knowing how usually it’s a lot more competitive. But ads within the Facebook ecosystem actually were more cheaper than previous years because there’s a lot less competition in the auction because I think people are more afraid or they don’t have inventory in general. And so they took a big leap of jumping from 12 to almost $50,000 per month on adspend. And it’s been pretty good. It’s like pre Facebook, iOS updates in terms of return on adspend. So we’ve got some there like almost seven ROA S, which is pretty cool.
Norman Farrar 7:57
Oh, that’s great. Fantastic. All right, we’re gonna be talking about a subject that until this year, I’ve never heard of, and I don’t know if this is just a new term that has come up, but Q five. So you know, I’d like to learn a little bit more about it. Like, what is q five at Facebook?
Lauren Patrullo 8:18
Sure. So because we do so much we do high volume traffic on the Facebook platform. We heard about this term. First, I believe in 2008, about spring 2008 When we were doing our campaign planning and Facebook told us we have agency level reps. And they talked about how this week between Christmas and New Year’s Eve. So the day after all the E commerce brands leaves the ecosystem because they’re getting ready for January returns. And right before all the gym and health and fitness New Year New you brands jump into the system, then it’s the cheapest week to advertise. Wow.
Norman Farrar 8:57
i Okay, so Q five, the week between Christmas and New Year’s Eve is the cheapest. Now you know what? Cat gets out of the bag. And then what happened? But I didn’t know that.
Lauren Patrullo 9:12
Yeah, so it’s just there’s such little competition. And you just see such a surge and auction the surge in the auction pressure, again comes January because everyone makes these new year new, new campaigns. But a lot of times, small business owners or even agencies aren’t working that week as well. So they kind of put their campaigns and set it and forget it mode. And it’s become such a big opportunity that Facebook calls it Q five, so they’ll recommend and so in spring 2018 When we heard it, we started planning, not just our Black Friday season, but what we were going to do during that week when people are going to be on their phone a lot because they’re at home with their families either like using Instagram to escape conversation, or using Instagram to document conversations that are going on with their family households. And so more people in front of Screen fewer people competing for their ads impression. So yeah, Q five, it comes from Facebook’s I don’t know how long it’s been. But that’s when we were first introduced it.
Norman Farrar 10:10
Interesting. So if you’re, if you’re going to start looking at Q five, would you recommend doing sort of a pre launch getting people like, for Black Friday, we let people know that we were having even sales prior to Black Friday. And then we are having a major sale during Black Friday? And we would do this through Facebook, Instagram, wherever? And would you would you recommend doing that same sort of strategy?
Lauren Patrullo 10:40
I would say it’s dependent on your industry, how much promo fatigue your customers are experiencing. Because you don’t want to fall into that always on sale category, because with the extension of Black Friday, which came from last year prime being close to Black Friday, it just there’s this never ending assumption that it’s always going to be on sale. I think it’s a better pivot to put the messaging along of it won’t be in time for Santa. Because that’s what’s worked for us. So get the deals that you want, even though you know, because I think it’s December 11 or December 12. I say like 1212 at 12. So by December 12. At midnight, if you haven’t placed your order should not expect it to arrive before Christmas. At least that’s what we’re seeing from like United States Post Office and things of that nature. But yeah, if you can pivot the conversation to be like, still get massive holiday savings without anticipating it to be under the tree.
Norman Farrar 11:34
Okay, so these I thought this year, I saw from a lot of retailers this year, that exactly what you said it was an unending month of Black Friday, it started in October for a bunch and it was like a Black Friday sale of it just becomes I don’t know, it’s just not exciting. These guys, I don’t know how it turned out for them. It might have worked. But for me putting something on sale for a whole month doesn’t make any sense. It’s just, you know, it just doesn’t it doesn’t make any sense to me. And I think it’s just what you were saying.
Lauren Patrullo 12:15
Yeah, promo fatigue is definitely something buyers are familiar with, I think at the beginning the advent of when you launch your promotions compared to your competitors or other things like a big component like pumpkin spice. And when you think about pumpkin spice season starts when Starbucks launches, their official PSL like their pumpkin spice latte, and that keeps going up one or two weeks sooner. So when you can be one of the first to market with that type of a promotion, it can be beneficial. But if you’re sustaining the same promotion, you can annoy your, at your your buyers and be like, well, this wasn’t special, you’re not authentic with your urgency. So I can say for me personally, when I saw these and it didn’t expire, I was like, Oh, I don’t need to buy right now. I’ll look at it later. And I’ll save that as a bookmark. And then I didn’t end up buying.
Norman Farrar 13:04
Right, what I can see is that like over the period of a month, if somebody did say that they’re just letting people know, and maybe not a month, but two weeks, that there is a pre Black Friday sale that if you take advantage now, you’ll even get a better sale than Black Friday. And that just keeps the sales trickling in. Typically, I don’t know if you find this, but I usually find that sales sort of slow down. It could be up to 30% leading up to Black Friday, and then it just hits. Do you find that?
Lauren Patrullo 13:39
Absolutely. Because people are expecting and waiting for their sales, so they don’t want to spy it and need it. Now they can wait two weeks. It’s I call it the vending machine solution, where like I’m hungry, I see that Snickers bar, but it’s $2.50 at the vending machine in my resort. But if I go downstairs, outside at the 711 on the corner, it’s 50 cents. So I think of that is that they’re more likely in waiting for that sale to pop. So right now, you’re gonna see a lot of those procrastinators jump in today, and potentially on the extension what sounds like oh, shoot, I forgot it was Monday, I had a long holiday weekend. I forgot to buy what I needed to do for Cyber Monday. So you’ll see a pop today and tomorrow specifically, but then you’re gonna see this like usually a dwindling where this week almost has been when people are not buying because they’re organizing what their Christmas lists are. They’re coming down from spending so much money during Black Friday, Cyber Monday and evaluating whose gifts do they still need to buy. And then you tend to see a pop around that second, almost third week of December, but with shipping dates, you’re gonna see that extension or this is what we’re seeing and continue to suspect the extension of those sales so that people can say, hey, look, get it before the inventory runs out because it’s such a realistic thing, especially in the North American market. But yeah, I would say what we have found consistently successful this year, last year and all years prior, announcing that you have a list and getting people to re opt into a specific list. So they’re aware of what sales are coming, so that they know, hey, we want you to raise your hand and signal that you’re interested in the sale so that we can get it to you before anyone else. Or at least we like release it to you 24 hours before it goes public, so that you can start making decisions and give that level of urgency. So in terms of your planning, like some sort of Q five sale, you could I would run the risk, I would err on the side of caution of running the risk of just forever being on sale, I would just recommend instead to pivot really investing back into your consumer if you were thinking about doing, you know, review solicitation. So say you want to remark it to all your audience that’s attending here with one with Norm, Kelsey has is like, hey, we’d really love for your honest feedback. You can spend your money and time on those efforts during a period that would cost you probably 25 to 50% Less during that last week, and give people some like feel good reminders, it’s a great time to talk about opportunities for customer service, Hey, your product should have arrived by now if it’s you know, two or three weeks after they’ve purchased, to connect with them and say, hey, we’d really love to hear how that went and instigate a conversation in case that helps mitigate like a bad review, hey, this product arrived and it was soaking wet. I couldn’t use it, it was inoperable. Or even stuff, just reminding them how to use it. A lot of times people will buy these major appliances or toys and they just sit and shelves and boxes unused. If you remind people of why they purchase it, then you could start to bring up their loyalty. So that’s something I would recommend overdoing a sale because of this long sale period and based off of sale fatigue your users could have been experiencing with your brand, but it’s always dependent on what you’ve been doing thus far.
Norman Farrar 16:45
Right? Yeah, like, for us was soap, you know, people buy soap or they buy a soap subscription. And, you know, okay, maybe they’re getting overwhelmed with how much soap they’re getting every month. So, we we let them know that you can use it for this, you can use it for gifting you can use it for you know, the, the the stuffing Stucker stuffers, you can use it for guests, so, but we just let them know. And then we let them know the benefits. And, and that way, we get a little bit more retention, which is you know, always good. So I love what you just said there. But let’s dig in a little bit further, or before we do that we have a giveaway today. So why don’t we talk a little bit about that? What’s your giveaway today?
Lauren Patrullo 17:27
Sure. So um, I do so we work with an agency level, I have a team of almost 20 Other pack members at longest media. And sometimes we have ecommerce brands that are not necessarily ready to hire on an agency. So we do consulting hours, and I charge about $1,200 for a 90 minute session. And we’re giving that away. So fantastic. Free time. All right. Do you like listening to my voice?
Norman Farrar 17:49
There we go. So Kelsey will be entering me into that. We’ll have Kelsey so if you are interested, it’s hashtag we’ll have Kelsey, enter two people, or tag two people, get them to comment and you’ll get a second entry as well. Okay, so if you are listening right now, and you’ve had some Black Friday experience, we’d really love to hear what’s happening Black Friday, Cyber Monday. Just let us know, we’d love to hear from you like to see your comments or if you have any questions about Black Friday, Cyber Monday, or if you have questions about this Q five, let us know about that as well. All right, let’s talk about why nobody talks about Q five.
Lauren Patrullo 18:34
I think one it’s a term when you know that they’re four quarters in a year. So when if you hear Q five, which I think maybe the first time you heard Q five or like, is this real? Like are you making up terms now like as mageddon and just throwing out numbers. So I think it sounds like something people aren’t familiar with. So they automatically disregard what it means by hitting the bigger initial or the bigger underlying tone, which is why Facebook has coined it cue five and why they have made such efforts with the small businesses that they work with. And using this as strategy is because when folks take time off for the holidays, sometimes they pull the fuel off of their gas pedal on their marketing campaign efforts. Similar they spent all this time building up around Black Friday and holiday sales, that again, when December 15 ish usually happens, you see fewer sales because people already got their gifts, that they’re like, Okay, I finally get to take a break. But really, brakes should be for like summertime. But um, when people remove their foot, their lead foot on the gas pedal, which they’ve been doing so aggressively because q4 is the biggest time of the spending year. It’s just like the auction systems like I’m ready for more and it’s happened. But in general like I think if you want to take time off during the holidays, great do that. Spend time with your family if you have the ability to outsource and have someone else manage your campaigns during it like have them double up on time now but Most individuals want to relax after an aggressive q4. I don’t like I’ll come back in the new year.
Norman Farrar 20:06
Right? Well, what happens like there’s this year has been probably like no other year with the supply chain issues. So you’re running low on inventory, you know that you’re going to run out of inventory. Can you switch the gear and go from Okay, I’m going to sell products. But I want to keep my brand in front of people’s name, or my brand in front of people’s faces. Is there a strategy there that you can play during this period of time?
Lauren Patrullo 20:35
Oh, if you’ve got individuals you’ve sold and brought all these products to market and so you have some sort of brand, or like product registration, or some sort of like post purchase engagement series that you’re already doing in your email or SMS campaigns, bring that into the Facebook ecosystem, where you can engage, you can create videos like you imagine, Norm you and Kelsey, you could have videos in either Santa hats or like rocking more Hanukkah or Kwanzaa type apparel or even in like New Year’s outfits, and just saying, Hey, we really love to ring in the end of 2021, with lots of celebrations and fireworks, especially fireworks from you all. So thanks for listening, you’re specifically being retargeted right now, because you’ve been engaging with us over the last six months. And we just want to say thank you from the bottom of our hearts. And if you have a moment, we’d like to hear your honest feedback. You can check out what other people have been saying about us if we are not your if you’re not our biggest fan. No worry, you can totally opt out of seeing this next time. But yes, we are creeping you because you’ve been creeping us something to that effect. Again, if you’re using some sort of video view as your campaign objective on Facebook, there’s three areas of campaigns that you can build yours out, video views are really like top of funnel. Doing it for retargeting for reengagement. It helps people feel like Oh, thanks for thinking about me. And especially if you as your name and like using your son like connecting with those individuals, they’re gonna see you pop up in the feed and be like, Oh, that’s not a hard ask. I’ll even just like like this or send some like fireworks in reactions to this. And you shouldn’t expect to spammy. CPM is the world that I live in your CPM for that kind of warm retargeting are gonna be like five bucks. So spending five, maximum $10 to get in front of 1000 people that are engaged with your brand, or even like going after your past purchasers and just showing them videos have like UGC testimonials, and just reminding them how great you are. It’s really cost effective. So they’re not thinking about your competitors. And it’s just like, oh, yeah, I have that.
Norman Farrar 22:34
Oh, great. So just so we’re straight. Even if you have limited inventory, because I’ve seen a couple of comments come down here, but inventory, you can still go out there and keep your brand in front of people. Yeah, perfect. Okay. So the other thing I want to talk about a, you just started talking about lists, and driving people over to list getting them just to remind them about being on your list, why to be on your list, what are the benefits, they could be registration? Let’s talk about building up that list a little bit. So how do we do that? How do we get these people to give us that valuable email, or their phone number so we can start marketing to them.
Lauren Patrullo 23:20
So one example is on the product itself. If you have a QR code that you can take them from your product, your printed packaging, into your ecosystem, you can bring them into a landing page that connects to your email service provider. So you can have that list in your emails, that’s first party data. So if you can capture them and say, Hey, let’s register your product with us your name, you know, your purchase date, and some other small information that you want to collect from them, then they live in your database. And that’s like the best because Amazon keeps so much information to themselves. So having that physically on the packaging, and then giving someone a clear call to action. People are used to QR codes because of the pandemic. But if you can associate something with a QR code, whether that’s a monthly giveaway, or registering your product for free returns within a 30 day period, things of that nature, you’ll get individuals to opt in. And then you can keep them in your ecosystem. If you don’t have an email list. Other things that you can do is your QR code, engage them into a Facebook or Instagram page and then invite them to you can start a conversation with them, invite them to follow your page, like this enter giveaways, things of that nature, but you want them to take from the product they’re physically holding, I use my phone, whatever, take from the phone and live in that kind of wheelhouse. Other things that are pretty good is if you have some things that we’ve done is like scan for special offers. You can always change the URL that’s behind that QR code. So you can have branded campaign so if someone scans it and it’s this time of the year, you can have it all around like winter wonderland or like holiday end of the year stuff. And then you can change it around Valentine’s Day so you can have branding opportunities. So they’re like, oh, it’s not just a static, right okay. But when Get them into it, it’s not just important to capture their information, you want to acknowledge that you’ve captured it. So you want to send them that first message that says, hey, Norm, thanks so much for showing up. We’re really excited to see you. Here’s all the great ways that you can use our product. And then you can start to cycle them with like content that you’ve done before any blogs that you’ve written before showing the stuff so you remember to stay top of mind on their smells, or
Norman Farrar 25:27
I was I was over at app sumo the other day like yesterday. And for those of you who do not use QR codes, take it take a look at AppSumo. They have just typed in QR, I think I forget what it’s called QR coder, I’m not sure but they do have something there for I think it’s 39 or $59 is lifetime purchase. I have nothing to do with it. But just check it out. Because you can do all sorts of things. In create these custom codes, you can create different colors, you can put your logo in the middle, and it’s static and dynamic. Static just means that it’s one, it once you once you type in the URL, it goes there 100% of the time, you can’t change it. If you do a dynamic URL, then it’s exactly like Lauren’s talking about you can change it to the season, you can drive traffic to whatever page that you want. And that includes if you put it on to your insert, let’s say it’s on your insert or on your packaging. You can do that for people. If they’re buying at this time of year. Now they’re going over and they’re getting a seasonal greeting. So just check that one out. How expensive should people be looking like you talked about a, like five or 10 bucks, you know, for for doing just a general like a CPM for what we were just talking about. But what kind of money? And what kind of return? Should people be expecting? A How much should they put aside for a budget, it might be not $1 amount, it might be a percentage of?
Lauren Patrullo 27:00
Sure. Um, I would say, honestly, if if you can do 10%, of what you put for Black Friday, you’re going to crush your competition. And assuming that they’re not even present, I’m like, I can’t iterate enough how cheap it is, during this time of the year. If you’re doing smaller amounts, and you’re not necessarily advertising on Facebook, boosting your existing content and showing, like getting your current content like you, I don’t know if you know this, I’m sure many people listening have heard of the dollar a day formula. But if you take the existing content that you’re already writing on your social media platforms, or even the content that you’ve been writing on your Amazon posts, you can take that content, build up a quick post and ask people to engage with it. And you’ll spend $2, to get in front of 1000 people. So if you have a budget, I try to recommend about 20% of any marketing budgets to be specifically dedicated to branding. And I would put 10% of that at this time of the year because you’re going to get this massive re follow list. But in general, how we set up our campaigns, all of our Black Friday planning starts in June because we’re building up all these retargeting lists because going after audiences and Facebook during q3 q4 is really expensive. If you’re going after cold audiences and telling Facebook who to find going after warm audiences because you’ve already told Facebook, here are the people I want you to advertise for. You’re cutting out so many of the costs, that if you can do your June July, cold audience segmenting and targeting for retargeting during this time of the year, do that again in this Q five week. So 20% of the budget, I always recommend for branding, always, if you’re courageous, and if you’re a risk taker, I would put 10%, specifically during Q five because you’re just gonna show up everywhere. Alright, and it’ll feel like an 80% of your budget.
Norman Farrar 28:54
Wow, that’s crazy. Man. I really got to try this. i And I gotta be honest, I haven’t. Like I said, this is all new to me. So I’m going to talk to Kelsea both this and see if he can do it or not. Anyway, before we go any further, we have a word from our sponsor, Kelsey, get on the button. Thank you solarize for sponsoring this episode of lunch with Norm solarize is your comprehensive solution for your everyday business needs. Everything you need to grow and scale your Amazon business is just one click away. For more information, contact demon his team over at solarized calm and remember solarize is with one R and we’re back there. I always get to you know, have my cup of coffee, have a sip of coke. During those I’m just getting used to those new pre records. So anyway, let’s talk more about how we can take advantage of Q five. And I’m wondering, is it possible that there is an extension Hear, and the reason why I’m saying this and maybe not so much for Facebook, but maybe some other platforms. Because what I find with my sales over for Amazon is my sales go from. Oh, Marsha. Okay. Yeah. So anyways, going to about mid January. And now I think those are sales usually explode during that period of time. And I think that’s probably because of gift cards is what I’ve heard. Are you running ads? Even after the first of January? Are you kind of going back and hitting it hard until mid January or so?
Lauren Patrullo 30:47
Um, well, I have ads on always.
Norman Farrar 30:49
Yeah. But I’m saying is there a bump in the ads? Oh, yeah. Anyway, first,
Lauren Patrullo 30:53
there is a bump in the ads. But I try not to bump up the budget, because it’s more expensive to run ads in January, just again, because the gyms come in hard. They are aggressive. Any one in the fitness space. That stays to be true till about February 14 ish. So until Valentine’s Day, because it continues to one there’s opportunities for sales, it’s more expensive. So if there’s like a cycle of one, it’s cost prohibitive at times, you have from January one until about February 14, February 15. And then it starts to slow down again. And then you’ll see that pick up around May when the summer audience comes back in. And then it definitely slows down summer. So summer is when you take a break, not not during the Christmas week. And then it just gradually increases increase, it will change across verticals, we do have clients not in the E commerce space in the hospitality space. So you’ll see very different, but we do see, we will keep ads on and we will turn campaigns with different messaging. So we will trend on the new year new you. And we’ll pivot into like make 2020 to your year that you do X and try to hone in on those like emotional triggers. But in general, you’re gonna see a more expensive period, not not anything like right now with Black Friday, but it’s gonna be a bit like 60% of that in terms of auction pressure.
Norman Farrar 32:17
Okay. When you’re creating these ads to on the on your Amazon account? Yeah, let’s stick to Amazon, it with your Amazon account during this time period. Are you changing the audience? Are you changing any words or any of the interests? Are you just sticking to the audience that you were targeting prior to Q five?
Lauren Patrullo 32:40
Right now I stick to the remarketing because they’re going to be the cheapest audience, I don’t find this time period to be worthwhile. I mean, you can find new audiences and it can be, you know, it can be lucrative, but it can be more expensive. It’s kind of like gold mining and sifting through. And so I don’t put the time and energy into that because a lot of the times people have these lists, they have these audiences that they ignore, or they don’t really drill down. Sometimes people have like remarketing lists or they have like past customer purchase lists that are in the 10s of 1000s. And when you’re only spending smaller amounts, you’re never going to hit that full list. So you could be more aggressive with that this time period with those audiences.
Norman Farrar 33:19
And that’s my next question. So if you’ve got these audiences, you talked about segmenting list is a second ago. So you’ve got these lists, you’ve got people that engage every 30 days, every 60 days. And then you’ve got the people that don’t really engage, they’re on your list, nothing really happens. Now, are you targeting that whole list? Are you trying to get it because it’s so cheap? Are you trying to draw those people who really don’t engage with you back to engage with you?
Lauren Patrullo 33:47
So we I go from warm to hot, so hot is those those folks we love? We know they’re not you know, tire kickers or what have you, I will still go after those warm audiences. One of my one of one of our accounts, we went after this massive list of almost half a million subscribers, people that we knew, were not big fans, that was a man that had a 5.32 return on adspend. So we cast the net wide because of everything that’s going on with the ad ecosystems. We want to leverage any data that we have because there’s this kind of like data desert. So I would say yes, go after the people and then you just have to take down and make sure your creatives and campaigns are going to equally attract and repel so that you can feed the algorithm hey, here’s a half a million list we know this list is dirty in terms of it’s not like our hottest hottest lists a little bit grayish warm but you create the offers and the campaigns that are going to get those that were you know like this Hail Mary opportunity to come back to engage so that then they get into your more interested remarketing list because you’re hitting them with the hot with a different campaign messaging. So you’ll keep those warm that are ignoring you and the more they ignore you they’ll Last Facebook is going to continue or any ads, any algorithm platform is going to continue to deliver to them because they’re showing behaviors that are not conducive to a conversion.
Norman Farrar 35:08
Okay. Now, can you kind of go through your favorite platforms? We know your go to is Facebook, I think, what are some other platforms that you use?
Lauren Patrullo 35:21
Snapchat is a really good one when you have a proven offer, if you’re looking slower. Yeah, so Snapchat has a larger audience, it has actually an audience that is not just teenyboppers, or millennials, or Gen Z, it actually does have a larger audience. In the older demographic, the more mature demographic that aren’t being competitively sought after. So like we’ve seen campaigns that are going after almost b2b kind of style components, like selling auto parts, or selling like computer equipment, it’s not geared towards the under 25 year old at all, do really well on the Snapchat platform, just because it’s so it’s not competitive. You can I mean, if you’re following stocks at all Snapchats not doing very well. But they have one of the best ad targeting ecosystems compared to other platforms where you can drill down into interests, and you can create these larger, warm retargeting audiences. So I like using Snapchat, when you’ve gotten a proven offer in whatever ecosystem and bringing in there, it’s very video forward though. And I know that creating videos can be challenging. We like using an app called BillyOh bi li Oh, ugly. For like 47 $50, you can send your product and get a user generated style video made for you. They’ll edit it, they’ll send it back. And you can almost order what kind of user you want to interact in that type of video. So that content has done really well on that platform. Depending on the type of products like so yours in soap space, like Pinterest is one if you can keep it on evergreen because it’s cheap traffic. But you can remember Pinterest as a platform where people are about 60 to 90 days ahead of the purchase really, really good for high end, expensive products. And an affordable brand awareness campaign for I saw someone has like a $10. And under product. They have really niche communities within the Pinterest ecosystem. And because it’s so keyword dense, it’s similar to Amazon and that you have that you can build audiences based off of keywords and original that’s blending social media interest targeting and you know Search Engine specific keywords other I don’t like advertising on tick tock, I think it’s a waste of money unless you have the ability to create a lot of videos non stop creative fatigue on tick tock is about like two or three days. And that’s just, you know, for a small business owner, it’s not necessarily obtainable. And then of course, we use Google, Yahoo. As our search engines, a lot of people don’t advertise on Yahoo. So you can spend like 100 bucks a month and at least cover your branding. So if someone’s searching for you, Yahoo is the designated platform if you’re using WhatsApp, so if you have an international audience, and they’re searching for your products, and they’re having conversations in WhatsApp, and they’re doing it from there, they’re relying on Yahoo. And so again, it’s a less competitive space than Google. Yeah, I can let Oh, seminari. Kelsey, well done. You already sent the URL. Um, yeah, so I love billows an app to create those video campaigns. Facebook, I would say is the best at certain times of the year. Facebook was not my friend during the summer. It’s just like the hardest summer are the hardest like season of my like, entire digital marketing career? Isn’t everything with post iOS. But depending on where you’re connecting with your buyers where they are in your buyers journey, I’ll have a different answer.
Norman Farrar 38:52
Google’s been aggressive lately with trying to just kind of wine and dine some of our brands. How are you finding their app, their their ads right now AdWords.
Lauren Patrullo 39:03
So in our ads campaign, they have the strongest return on adspend. Because you’re going after those with direct intent. YouTube is is a whole different game. I know it’s owned by Google. YouTube is still a very great branding platform. But again, it’s reliant on having that type of video. So I’m going to keep YouTube separate from display and search from search, you know, when it can take up to 90 days before you can get Google to understand who your audiences and that can be frustrating, and it can be expensive. But once you get those individuals, Google thrives and evergreen, you just have that running and it compounds in a way that’s like 1720 row as on some of our campaigns like, four is pretty pretty standard on Google because you’re going after people that are specifically looking for your products. Um, other things that are interesting, just as a benchmark number if you’re looking at YouTube, because again, I keep them a separate YouTube Advertising buyers media buyers are different strategists and just search ads and display. Because YouTube if you want to optimize your campaigns on YouTube for eight to 10 days, you need to expect to spend like 60x or 16, sorry, one 616 x of what your cost per acquisition is on a daily basis for your eight to 10 days of just to optimize for that initial conversion, you can spend less, it just takes longer for that algorithm to optimize. But Google is going to win in the long term with your evergreen efforts. And Google has a lot less maintenance, when compared to other platforms that are so creative dependent, because when you’re setting up these search campaigns, you can use dynamic search and remarketing. And you can have campaigns that are taking what people are searching for, and placing them into your ads just have to be careful with trademark words. So you’re not fighting this creative fatigue as much. And then if you as long as you go in and you mitigate negative words. So if say you’re selling cups, and then someone types in like D cups, and they don’t want to buy bras you’re selling like glasses, you can eliminate those terminology so that you don’t show up in the next search term with D cups.
Norman Farrar 41:16
Okay. All right. So, uh oh, last question. Before we get to a question. What about influencers? Are you during Q five? Are you trying to target like, maybe at the beginning of November or beginning of December, starting to get more and more influencers to come up to the to promote Q five?
Lauren Patrullo 41:42
Well, there should always be some sort of ideally, an automated flow that invites any purchasers to potentially become influencers, or to share their feedback. And some of the more successful campaigns we see is like, Thanks for your purchase. In exchange for your honest review, we’ll give you a $10 coupon for you to continue investing in our store, things of that nature. But in terms of soliciting influencer content, we don’t do it more aggressively. But we’ll be testing different campaigns and different lead generation type of campaigns, because there’s different ways that you can connect to that influencer. But in general, like organically, so this is on the paid side, if you do it from the organically, we don’t do that so much. Because we know that they’re with their friends and family during the holiday season and where we want to connect with them as after they’ve tried and use the product more if they’re new to it, or if we’re talking about new deals. We know that they’re a lot of the women that we work with are like getting ready for New Year’s Eve. So they’re not thinking about work, they’re taking a work vacation just as much as many other small businesses are.
Norman Farrar 42:45
Okay. All right. Squire your round. I am. Alright, questions.
Kelsey 42:54
Okay, so you did still one of my questions from the audience. But let’s go to it and see if there’s anything more just in general from rad. Do you recommend influencer marketing or social media merch, I guess with social media marketing
Lauren Patrullo 43:10
with so in terms of influencer marketing, rad, can you give more clarity like, are you because you can use influencers in your videos and you can advertise on their behalf or you can have them organically promote your stuff. Most influencer marketing is done within social media as their channels I want to be like more specific on that. But you can have a tag team strategy, like you’re able to invite others to be collaborators on your posts so that they can post it from their account. So it looks native to them. And then you can amplify that content. So it’s not coming from Lauren through Lowe’s brand, but coming from the influencer and that’s a vehicle that you can do very well on social media and even more aggressively on Instagram in a way that I haven’t seen with success elsewhere. Okay.
Kelsey 43:57
Alright, so just let us know read. The next one is from Faye. It’s a big one. Lauren, if I have a product that is valued at approximately $10. And I’m totally fine with giving it away for free in exchange for a high quality lead, email, SMS, how would you suggest that you go about doing it? I already have a QR code for warranty. So I’m not sure I can go down that route.
Lauren Patrullo 44:20
So my first question would be is like awesome. If you have like a $10 giveaway, I would put that into like your cost per new customer acquisition, I would assume that you’re going after people that have never purchased before? Or are you going after people that have purchased your products in Amazon and you want to get them into your ecosystem? So I’ll talk about both scenarios. So if it’s someone that has purchased your product before, and you want to get them into your ecosystem to continue this engagement become like fanatics for your brand. You’ve already got a QR code for the warranty. What is the follow up messaging with that warranty? I would just say like awesome your product is guaranteed and it’s been Like you’ve got warranty for the next 30 days, PS, because we like you, here’s like a $10 coupon for our store. And this is where everyone is talking about. And you can have it dynamically based off of what email service provider or messaging platform, you’re setting it up, to have it give a different answer based off of what they bought. So if someone bought, you know, a cup versus tape, I’m literally just looking at what’s on my desk, forgive me. But like, like, There’s nothing interesting on my desk, like I have scotch tape for shipping. Glasses cleaner. But if they if purchase product, a say $10. And say, we really just like to thank you so much for contributing to our small business, here’s $10 that you could use on the store things that a lot of people have purchased this product that complements product A, this product, which is completely different from product A and then layered in with some testimonials about that product, or an accessory to that product so that they can keep going. But that’s assuming if you’ve got the QR code and the warranty, you would already have that information. So you can say we’ll send you that $10 via an SMS. And we’ll just text it to you. So you can have them opt in to that. Or if it’s like, hey, to do this, take this like three second questionnaire, and you can collect additional information beyond that QR code. But I’m assuming if they’re going to the warranty, it’s not just opening up a URL, it’s opening up some sort of form to collect that data, which returns it the only other way, it’s like, if you have a $10 item you’re willing to give away in exchange for lead some of the easy campaigns to set up. Because I know a lot of you know, Amazon, small business owners don’t have 28 million hours in a day. If you were put dipping your toe in the water of Facebook ads, there’s a campaign objective called lead generation, where you just have the ad, you don’t have to build anything else besides the ad, the form is already created in Facebook. And then you can just say, Hey, we’re giving away 100 of these. So the first you know, five people or the first 100 people that comment and engage with this, then they could fill out the form and submit it. And then what you can do automatically with the Facebook system, again, assuming you have an email service provider that will deliver that information is like awesome. You’ve been entered, we’ve sent you details in your email, if you didn’t, please email us back at like Lauren patroller was the coolest person in the world@gmail.com or whatever that customer services. So if you wanted to test something during the Q five period, you could generate ads that say, Hey, we’re giving this away, or like, Hey, we’re looking for beta testers, things of that nature. Okay.
Norman Farrar 47:33
All right. Very good. Next kills.
Kelsey 47:35
All right. So I think this is a point from Andrew, that probably a lot of Amazon sellers are thinking, this is all great, but who has time to do all of this? So is there a thing that people should prioritize? Do you think? Obviously, there’s a lot of information for them, and they probably don’t know where to start first? Is there anything you can help them with in that sense,
Lauren Patrullo 48:01
I would, I would prioritize, assuming you’ve had a large group of people by now, for the holiday season, especially in queue five, I would prioritize post purchase communication with your audience wherever you can. So use the soap example, you’ve probably told people buy this for gifts, buy this for your bathroom, buy this for whatever I think norm what you could do is, hey, we’ve done so well with soap. And we’ve heard a lot from you all that soap has been the best like oh, shoot, I forgot to get you a holiday gift gift. So in case you end up seeing family members or seeing friends, and they give you a gift after the holiday, or they’re giving you something around like January 7, which is like Three Kings Day, you can have some of these on hand. Since you’ve already purchased one, we’ll give you free shipping, for any the like, Oh, I didn’t forget to get you a gift gift. Something to that. So you can go cheaply after your existing audience. Because they’re already familiar with you, it doesn’t take a lot of building out the interest, you just literally upload that email Audience List. And then you put together like a creative you can take the creatives from like canva.com, they have a bunch of free images that you can use, I would say it shouldn’t take you more than 15 minutes, I’ll give you 45 minutes to an hour if it’s your first time setting it up and you go to business.facebook.com/overview to create a business manager but it’s something if you have nothing else I would go after the post purchase. And you’ve already spent so much money acquiring that customer and you spent so much time and energy getting them into your ecosystem. Show them love and then you’ll see that love paid in dividends with referrals, reviews, unit UGC content, so user generated content and so just just ask
Norman Farrar 49:40
one thing I’d like to add to that too. We talked about working with your strengths, not with your weaknesses. So for me, I don’t like anything financial. I know it. I’ve taken accounting courses. I hate it. Okay, but I hire somebody to do my accounting my bookkeeping and all that. So I would suggest the same thing, if you’re not comfortable, or if you don’t want to learn how to put this together, is to seek out somebody who can. And it doesn’t have to be that expensive. But you can, I mean, it’s up to you, you can go up to these different agencies, check them out, have your own interview, but it’s probably well worth your while to have a perfect you’ve just heard over this hour, when Lauren’s come up with just off the top, you know, just off the top of her head, a bunch of different things where it would probably take you a long time to come up with something not even close to that quality. So just a thought, you know that if you’re going to spend money, spend it on your weaknesses. So that’s
Lauren Patrullo 50:46
enter the giveaway. Oh, are you on the phone? There? You call me 10 minutes
Norman Farrar 50:51
there, and that’s why we’re entering as well. Right. Okay, we do we have any other questions?
Kelsey 50:59
We got one more question. All right, I think we can do this one is from Howard, best way to source an influencer, who can become an advocate for your brand versus moral transaction?
Lauren Patrullo 51:10
Okay, um, well, it’s a good one. It is a good one. Um, I would say the best way to source an influencer to be an advocate is someone who’s already a current customer. So that’s going to be the cheapest way of going in pulling your audience and asking, Why did they purchase? What did they love about it? If you’re looking for people that are new to your brands, honestly, I saw someone that had outdoor cameras, Howard, if you can reply back with what industry you’re in, specifically, if it wasn’t the outdoor cameras, I would 100% go to Pinterest. And then I would just create some really basic pins, put it around, like seeking user feedback for beta products or like, seeking out, it would be easy for me with practice. I’m so sorry. Um, but like Pinterest is a really good place because people are planning, and they’re looking for products that they’re not going to buy immediately. But they’re looking at what they’re thinking about. So if they’re already thinking about it, it’s someone who’s, who’s going to be thinking about how they can give feedback, versus the person who’s gonna buy it based off of convenience, do you think of the person who’s buying this snicker dollar, the snicker dollar, the dollar Snicker bar at the checkout line in the grocery store, versus someone who came with a recipe, knowing what they want to create that day into the grocery store.
Norman Farrar 52:22
Now, Howard, if you want to get some really detailed information about this, our mutual friend Paul Baron came on and showed us everything that he does in his search for brand ambassadors. So he goes from the customer, to the influencer to the brand ambassador even shares the flow that you’re using. So that’ll give you exactly what you’re looking for. And it’s I think it’s over. It’s over about an hour. So if you want to listen to the podcast, I think that will give you another more detailed answer.
Lauren Patrullo 53:02
And Paul is the king on this. Like, here he really amazing at speaking and signing ambassadors.
Norman Farrar 53:08
Yeah. Okay, so we’re getting close to that time. I think that’s it. Kelsey, let’s go to the wheel of Kelsey. Warren, you’ve never seen us enjoy Okay,
Kelsey 53:37
well, thank you again to brother Hayden, who came up with the song and the graphics for that. So thank you, Hayden, for our much appreciate it. Anyways, this is our we’ll have Kelsey, we do this every single podcast. So if you’re new, we’ll do a hash tag. We’ll have Kelsey with all of our guests when we can. And yeah, here we go. I’ll shuffle up the names. If you are the winner, please email me Kate at lunch with norm.com.
Norman Farrar 54:08
We all do this in our in our Platinum Patreon group every month.
Kelsey 54:16
Tom each Oh,
Norman Farrar 54:20
is that Mr. Hurt? That is Oh, fantastic.
Kelsey 54:25
All right, congratulations. So email me, Kate at lunch with norm.com. And for those audio listeners who have never participated before, and you’re interested, this is something we do live on our Facebook and YouTube and LinkedIn. It’s at 12pm. Eastern Time, Monday, Wednesday and Fridays. So if you’re interested in participating, that’s the time to do it.
Norman Farrar 54:48
Alright, Lauren, you’re off the hook. Thank you for being on.
Kelsey 54:55
Actually, we just got another i So Lauren just very kindly said that for anyone. We’re going to do another giveaway for someone who submits an honest review to the podcast. So I’m not sure how, how should we do this the first, the first person to say, I think you’re on mute.
Lauren Patrullo 55:20
That’s funny. I know, this isn’t my first time on microphone. I would say anyone that submits an honest review for your podcast, or live video, and whatever place they listen to it the most, within the next four days. So like by Friday, at noon, at noon, Eastern Standard Time, you could take a list of those individuals that email you proof of their submitted review, and then do another wheel.
Norman Farrar 55:47
I Fantastic. Well, why don’t we do that? We’ll on Friday, we’ll do a double wheel on Friday.
Kelsey 55:53
All right, yeah. So if you’re interested, please write us a review. It can be done on Google. We have a Google My Business. So a Google review. You can read a review on Facebook. Also, any podcast that you listen to. So Spotify, Google, one or the other apple. So just take a screenshot,
Norman Farrar 56:15
you’ll put the links in our Facebook group as well.
Kelsey 56:18
Yeah. Or if you have a question, just messaged me, and I can give you the link. It’s no problem with me. So just screenshot your review and send it to us. That’s K at lunch with norm.com. And we’re going to spin again on Friday. So awesome. Thank you so much, Lauren. Thank
Norman Farrar 56:31
you, Lauren, that you’re awesome.
Lauren Patrullo 56:34
Oh, likewise, I just I lacked the beard. I’m like,
Norman Farrar 56:39
next time next time. Okay, so Lauren, thank you so much for being on it was awesome. I got to learn a lot about something I didn’t know about. And now I got to explore Kelsey does, and we’ll have you back on. Oh, so Kelsey, get that email over to Lauren to book her again.
Kelsey 56:57
Okay, and everyone listening wants to know, how can they contact you Lauren?
Lauren Patrullo 57:02
Sure. Um, so my website is mongoose media that us and mongoose like the animal MLM G O S E. Media. I mean, DIA. And it’s lauren at so come say hi.
Norman Farrar 57:18
Very good. Alright, thank you, Lauren. Foul. Alright, bye. Okay, everybody, I hope you liked what you heard today. On on Wednesday, we’re going to have David Moreno on and he’s going to be talking about growing your brands through micro influencers. So that’ll be something that will just nicely dovetail into what we talked about today. But before we do anything else, Kelsey, can you give us a quick word from our sponsors, please?
Kelsey 57:46
I sure can. Here we go.
Norman Farrar 57:49
I wanted to give a quick shout out and say thank you to global wired advisors for sponsoring this episode of lunch with Norm. Global wired advisors is a leading digital investment bank focused on optimizing the business sales process. For more information, please call Chris shuffling and his team over at global wired advisors.com. Okay, anything else to add before we sign off kills,
Kelsey 58:18
I guess just smash those Like buttons. If you haven’t already, we do really appreciate you guys spending the time with us on these Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays. So thank you again, so much. Also, again, thank you for everyone that voted for us for the cellar polls.
Norman Farrar 58:35
Yes. Gotta thank everybody for that.
Kelsey 58:39
So again, thank you so much, we really appreciate it. Also, we’re starting to do a lot more blogs on our website. So if you want to check out some of the content that we’ve been coming up with, go check out that. And also, if you’re watching YouTube, hit that subscribe button down below, it’s the big red button and also hit that bell. If you’re looking to get notifications, right when we go live, you can hit the three dots and just put hit the push notifications. And that will enable you to get those those notifications right when we go live.
Norman Farrar 59:11
And you know, I just wanted to add, there’s a lot of listeners on here. And we know that everybody’s an expert in something. If you’re interested in contributing to our blog on lunch with Norm, we’d love to have a conversation with you. So we are looking for people that can provide really high quality content that we can share with our audience. So if you do let us know right, Kelsey Kay at lunch with norm.com and I think that’s it.
Kelsey 59:42
One thing this is the last day of the mustache, so really soak it in. Yeah, I don’t even want to visualize that. Oh. Anyways, it’ll be nice to have you back kills. That’s right. Yeah. Do your line.
Norman Farrar 1:00:00
Alright, I got good dude my line. Okay, so join us every Monday Wednesday and Friday at noon Eastern Standard Time. And for those that really like Kelsey his mustache that the the one person out there, sorry it’s coming off and thank you for a big part of this community. We couldn’t do it without you. Enjoy the rest of your day and we’ll see you on Wednesday entre entre
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
