#183: How To Create A Story For Your Product Photos

Episode: 183

Title: Norman Farrar Introduces Taylor Boone – Visual storyteller and photographer 

Subtitle: “How to Create a Story for Your Product Photos”

Final Show Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDi6lhT5Nl4

Back on Lunch with Norm…On today’s show Photographer Taylor Boone tells us about product story when crafting content, and the many ways to tell a product’s story. Taylor rolls over 20 years of photography and being an observer to elevate leadership, team and the customer experience into a game changer for the bottom line.

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In this episode, we discuss:

• 0:00 Intro/Housekeeping
• 5:23 Welcome Taylor Boone
• 6:38 Creating a Storyboard for your Product Photos
• 9:31 Customer-Centric Photography Tips
• 14:00 Biggest Frustrations with Product Photos
• 17:40 The Best Ratio for your Product Photos
• 19:20 Product Photos Storyboard Tips
• 29:08 Adding Value to your Product Storyboard 
• 32:58 Making your Product Credible
• 37:00 Creating Videos on Amazon Listings
• 45:34 Measuring the Effectiveness of Product Listings
• 47:37 3D Rendering Images and Videos
• 57:26 Using Animation in a Video for your Products

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Norman Farrar   0:01  

Hey everyone, it’s Norman Farrar, aka the beard guy here and welcome to another lunch with Norm. The Amazon FBA and Ecommerce podcast.

Norman Farrar  0:21  

Oh, all right. So today’s episode, we’re going to be talking about creating a story, creating a storyboard for your product photos, our guest, she focuses on helping Amazon sellers build out not just a product slide deck, but tells a story. So this is a returning guest. Our guest today is going to be Taylor Boone, so she’s going to be diving deep into how she sets up Amazon listings. But before we get to that, I want to give a big thank you to our sponsor, global wired Advisors, a leading digital investment bank focused on optimizing the business sales process. For more information call Chris and his team over a global wired advisors. Now, just before we get into Boy Wonder, we have Wilford light, called me the other day. And we’ve talked about this a variety of times on the podcast, and that’s ADA compliance. He’s put together a special website, where his ADA compliance plugin used to cost about $348 for a year, and he’s running it at $97. Now, I don’t have an affiliate for it, I have nothing to do with it. But if you go to my web pages like PR reach, or honu, you’ll see that we do this ADA, compliance is a killer, you have to have it. And unfortunately, there are tons of people who know the loopholes, and they go after small business owners who have websites. So there is a reason for it. You know that it’s so important that we can provide services for people who have disabilities. So anyways, check it out. It’s Kelsey, you’ve got the link there, but just click on it, you’ll see that it’s $97 Now if you go to Shopify, you’ll see that you can get the app for free. Not this app, but apps for free. But this gives you a much wider, broader coverage. So just check it out. Again, I don’t have an affiliate, check it out. I know that even for one of our websites, we’re going to take advantage and I’ve had to pay full pop for it as well. So anyways, I’m going to take advantage of that $97 on a new website that Tim and I are putting up fairly soon, so it’s good timing. Thank you well for Lionheart. Now boy wonder where are you?

Kelsey  2:57  

Hello. 

Norman Farrar

You’re there?

Kelsey

Friday. Yes, of course. I’m here.

Norman Farrar   3:02  

Well, it sounds closer to me than ever.

Kelsey 3:04  

I know. It’s weird. It’s like I’m right above you.

Norman Farrar   3:06  

Yet. Almost is.

Kelsey  3:09  

But welcome, everyone. Welcome to the show. Hello, Manny. We’ve got Victor Marcia roselands. AMZ elites, it’s gonna be a good one. I’m super excited. I love hearing about product photography and building stories behind it. So if you have any questions for Taylor, she’s been on before, but you can throw those over into the comment sections. Also, of course, smash those like buttons, get those thumbs up going in the comment section. And yeah, let us know where you’re watching from. Do you have any weekend plans, put them on in the comment section. Welcome, all good. Daniel, all the way from Brazil. It’s great seeing everyone, and I hope everyone is doing well. I also want to just mention that we’re kind of planning a 200 episodes special. And that’s going to be with our beard nation. Members, we’re going to do a little contest. So if you are interested, you want to be on the show. Check out our Facebook group. In the next couple of weeks, we’re going to be posting more information that’s linked with Norm  Amazon FBA and Ecommerce collective. And we’ll get that started. And if you’re interested, if you think that’s a good idea, let us know in the comment sections too. And if you’re new to the show, our podcast happens every Monday, Wednesday and Friday at 12 o’clock pm eastern time, here on YouTube, on Facebook, and on LinkedIn for all highlights. Go over to YouTube. And it’s going to be a fun episode. We got Muhammad from Pakistan, MC from London. Everyone is here. Right and I think that’s it’s Welcome. Welcome. And yeah. Alright, go.

Norman Farrar   4:53  

Go. There we go. Okay, so now we can start. I didn’t even know we’re doing a 200 episode. Thank you, Kelsey, for telling me anyway, if you have questions, throw them over to the right hand column. We’ll try to get to them. Sit back, relax, grab a cup of coffee, enjoy the show. Marsha Reese was the person who introduced me to Taylor. I just saw a message. I can’t read it. Unfortunately, Kelsey will read it. I think, anyways, Taylor, where are you?

Taylor Boone  5:23  

I’m here in beautiful sunny California.

Norman Farrar   5:27  

All right. Well, I don’t know what AMZ elite was saying, I guess it must be raining out in London right now. But anyways, yeah, we’re sunny here in just north of Toronto, as well. So we’re good to go. Okay, Taylor. So for those of us who don’t know you, or, or who don’t know, you, can you explain who you are and what you do?

Taylor Boone  5:49  

Yes, I’m Taylor Boone. I am a photographer, commercial photographer. And been doing this for 25 plus years, I stopped counting after 25. Because it leads to me counting gray hairs after that. And I’m a storyteller I by heart, and I’m a storyteller through my lens.

Norman Farrar  6:08  

Now, that’s interesting that you say that, because a lot of people wouldn’t think of photography? Well, I guess it would be like storytelling, but the way we’re talking about it today is the story board. Right? And that that’s so different than going out there. And just capturing a photo and telling that story. This some, I’m curious out of your experience, how important is that storyboard doing it properly on Amazon?

Taylor Boone   6:38  

It’s vital, it’s so vital, because from a content creator, I need to understand what the what the product owner developer creator sees. Because again, from as a business, we always see what we see, right? We see from our perspective, but we don’t see what the consumer needs to see to actually buy a product. So understanding what the product developer creator has, and then understanding what the consumer needs to have, you know, to buy the product, there’s a chemistry, there’s a psychology that needs to take place in that. And that’s truly the storyboard is figuring out, you know, what do you see? This is what I see as the creator? And then who’s your avatar? Who, Who’s Who are you selling to? What do they need to see, to actually buy this product, and we buy a based off of emotions, you know, I always I kind of go back to my rule of thumb, but we’ve got to understand the consumers brain. First of all, before we even start thinking about images, we need to figure out when they go to Amazon, what are they looking for, what do they need to see, because no one wants to be sold to, but yet everybody wants to buy and Amazon has proven that over the last, what 1920 months seeing an increase every single month on the revenue and owning that marketplace, we all know people want to buy and a confused mind won’t buy. And it’s so easy to when we see that photo, we get confused. And then we just scroll to the next one, and scroll to the next one. So we really want that first image to grab their attention.

Norman Farrar   8:11  

You know, it’s funny that you you talk about confusion, alright, these orange light bulbs that surround me, you know, I don’t know if you can see the orange cast. But anyways, I searched on Amazon the other day, because one went out and I was trying to find the better light bulb. First of all, I was looking at the costs, and I’m in the game. And but I wanted a good light bulb. So I spent a couple dollars more on the light bulb, even though it’s probably made by the same manufacturer. But going back to what you’re talking about with confusion, I looked at the images. And so Okay, everybody has that, you know, primary image, they all kind of looked consistent. But then these light bulb manufacturers, some of them were writing books, they’re reading paragraphs. And what you said was confusion is absolutely true. I didn’t want to read a book. I wanted to read that in the bullet points. I wanted to see just one or two words describing Yes, it is orange. Yes, it is this wattage, and that would have made me just bought. And that’s what ended up making me buy the one because first of all the photos were better quality. Second of all, they just made sense. And third, it was more expensive, if that makes sense. I don’t know if that’s just me. But you know, those three things go together.

Taylor Boone   9:30  

Totally. And you’re totally speaking my language of my biggest frustration as a consumer 90% of what I buy. I live in Santa Cruz in Santa Cruz, very local. So there’s not for me to find a camera store. I’ve got to travel two hours. I’m not going to do that. I’m going to go to amazon so 90% of my money I buy from Amazon and I get incredibly frustrated when I just want to see what is what problem is gonna solve for me. His bag is gonna fit in, right because I’m going on location, I need to know, you know, is this friendly? Is there a battery? What do I need to use this product, I’ll go look at and there’ll be one or two photos and will be blurry out of focus. So as a photographer, I’m like, so you’re not taking a great photo of a product you’re selling to photographers, there’s probably number one. And two, you’re not giving any information and or you give that information over here on the side. And I have to read half a novel, to find out if this is going to fit on my travel bag that I have to get on a plane. And it’s it’s so easy to make those that convey super quick. What is this going to be if I’m going to read it? And what is this going to be if I buy it, and it’s images, and now more than ever, video content really matters. I honestly, as a consumer, I’m not speaking as a photographer. Now I’m speaking the consumer that buys on Amazon. If there’s not a video, I’ll scroll to the next product that has a video because I want to see this in motion, I want to know, how am I going to use this product? What problem is this going to solve in my life? And how am I going to use it?

Norman Farrar   11:04  

Now, I went through school for video and photography, but I don’t use it. I like I used to do it 2030 years ago, but I kind of left that business. But I still kind of set up and I have my my, my tent with a little roundabout a couple of lights that I can, you know, just do some quick videos. But even me, I’m in the I was in the business, I’m not in the business anymore, I have to think about it. Yes, you can do it. And you can absolutely do this yourself and do it for free. And there’s a lot of niches that you look, there’s no video on the listing at all, none of your competitors, so be the first. And sometimes you can get away with that. But if I like our knife category, if you start looking at those knives now from you know Dell strong and all these other ones, they are incredible quality. And if I come out with a light tent with around about showing my knife with poor lighting, not a great lens, shadows in the background. It’s not gonna sell, you know, and you have to take a look at your niche. And again, it comes down to product, it comes down to price competition, but you can do it yourself. But like I said, even me, I’m I’m that’s that was my bag. And I decide no, I’m not touching this thing. Let somebody that’s a professional that does it everyday, do it. I don’t know, like, you know, I eat my words too, because you can go back and depending on the niche, you can take that iPhone that you have, and you can pretend you’re a photographer or a videographer. And you could get away with it. In some cases. In some cases, people do like it better. Because especially with some lifestyle photos, they want that candid Instagram look right?

Taylor Boone   13:05  

Well, and everything you just said, really goes back to the storyboard. So again, when we were looking at that store, or we’re looking at, you know, images first, what’s the standard we need for Amazon for your listing? Where can we bring in some lifestyle shots that might have a model might have? No, and I do work for more luxury products. But we know we’re speaking to someone that wants to see how this is going to be used. They want that luxury. First, we have to have that in our lifestyle images. But then we want the candidate images like how is someone using this, that just bought this product? You know, and there’s a client we worked with where we thought, okay, we’re gonna stage this through the storyboard, you need great, great images that really make this product stand out on white. So let’s do that. Now let’s create some really dialed in stylized lifestyle shots that are really going to speak to the consumer that’s going to drop, you know, a couple zeros to buy this product on Amazon. And now let’s go into someone’s home that’s using this product from their cell phone, taking photos of them using this product. And that, I mean, their business just scored big time through showing that because again, it’s the story. They’re telling a story about that product. And I think sometimes we look at a product. We go, what’s the story? There’s always a story, there’s a story to every single product. And that’s part of my philosophy is figuring out what is the consumer need to see. And then conveying that because I want to take what the client wants. And what I see as a creative and kind of combine those two, but we’ve got to figure out what is the consumer need to see. And we’ve got to be flexible. I always tell my clients we got to become be because what you and I think we might feel like is the right thing. Once we start doing the storyboard, we might have the aha moment where we’re like we’re completely wrong. We need to do a 360 and actually do this the photos from this angle, you know, and it’s and a lot of it is figuring out the psychology of who you’re cutting. Sturmer is, what do they want to see? And what are they looking at? And we were inundated with on social media with all these ads, what are they looking for what makes someone want to like a product or go deeper into it, taking that psychology, and to how we’re going to make this product stand out on Amazon is key when we’re creating that storyboard.

Norman Farrar   15:21  

Very good. Before we get into any other questions, I forgot to announce that we do have a giveaway today. So tell her if you’d like to just explain what the giveaway is all about.

Taylor Boone  15:33  

It’s a consultation. So aren’t anytime a client approaches us and wants help we give them a consultation. It’s a $200 value. And we basically go through their listing, it can either be a current listing they have that they feel like they’re not getting the traction they want to have. Or it can be a new product that they’re, they’re not sure where they should be going. So we kind of go through basically kind of mapping out a storyboard is not the actual storyboard, but it’s a bridge to that. And the philosophy of images, they need to be considering the text they need to be considering. And that what’s the overall who’s their competition, and how are we going to leverage them again, like you were just saying, you’ve got many options on Amazon to buy from others, but what’s gonna make them buy from you. So that’s part of the consultation. We’re giving one away today.

Norman Farrar  16:18  

All right, fantastic. And I’m going to sneak something else into. So during the giveaway, Kelsey doesn’t even know about this yet. But during the giveaway, if anybody would be interested in a one month free Centurion league membership, that’s $200, we’re going to be giving that away as well. So there’s two because it’s Friday. So just hashtag, we’ll have Kelsey, if you want to be entered twice, then tag two people either on this channel or just invite somebody else or tag somebody outside. Okay, so Kelsey, get that ready? I didn’t tell you about that.

Kelsey  16:55  

So we should have a different hashtag for that in case someone has one over the other. No, let’s do

Norman Farrar   17:03  

it make things so difficult.

Kelsey  17:04  

Hashtag hash, hashtag a mentorship for this ensuring League. Okay. Nice and easy. I

Norman Farrar   17:14  

keep I keep things simple. Taylor. Kelsey likes to mess things up. One of the I saw a comment here. And I don’t know if Kelsey, if you can find it. But Muhammad was talking about the best ratio was one to one 1.15. I think it said I’m not sure about that. I was just kind of curious about what you thought. And I think that’s what the ratio was.

Taylor Boone 17:40  

I think it depends on the product, actually. I think it depends on the it depends on the product really? Like, is that going to weigh in and help or is that going to defeat?

Norman Farrar  17:54  

Right? Yeah, that that is true. And also, just before we this affects a storyboard, but are you doing a lot for mobile optimization right now? Or are you still doing the square 1000 by 1000,

Taylor Boone 18:07  

we’re doing a little bit of both. So again, depending on the product, and what we’re seeing the traction, that’s going to work best for the category.

Norman Farrar  18:15  

Okay? Storyboard, I see this, especially in supplements in or anything that you have a capsule. Just to give you an example of what we’re talking about a storyboard is to get that consumer feel good, you know, the warm and fuzzies the engagement, giving them what they want, giving them you know, the the benefits of the product or the ingredients, somebody’s using them, what we’re not talking about, and I see a lot of newer sellers will do this on their own, but they’ll take a straight on image of their product, they’ll take it with the cap off, they’ll take it with capsules on you know on the bottom with the cap off, they’ll do a backside they’ll do it on the side to show you know the label. Nobody is interested in that, you know, you can take that front shot either with or without packaging. And then you can look at at least for me, I like to look at the bullets before I do anything. How do you come up with a storyboard and is it 100% The same every time

Taylor Boone  19:21  

it’s never the same so again, I’m gonna use a product we had to do the side shot and the back shot and the warning and all of that in those images. For me as a creative that wasn’t very creative on mic turn it click Turn it click but then I was able to talk to the client Mike okay, I get that your category we need to have that be the first three images right because there’s things on this product we’ve got to make sure that consumers aware of but let’s and they they had an idea that their their avatar was a man. And after we looked at the product, it says no your clients a woman, your clients, a woman and she’s the one buying this product for everybody in her family and she Gonna get this product and it’s going to become what she’s going to make sure her daughter has. And so the next part of that storyboard was, how does that mom need to see to make that her thought process that this, I need everyone on my family to have this, and I need all my friends to have this. And I need to make sure my daughter has this. So during that thought process is when we went deeper in the storyboard, and we’re figuring out, okay, this is what we need for images. And out of that, we created a video and business, huge increase. Based on just going a little bit deeper, we went a little deeper than what was the typical, this is what everybody else was doing in your category. This is the safe area, right? And we always want to be saying, but where can we go, that the consumer can actually see this, and we’re planning thoughts in their head without even saying anything. They’re seeing this point, oh, I started for people I need to buy this. And doing that they were like, we weren’t selling one product anymore. Our average cart now is for four pieces, because we’re showing that in the next image, why that consumer needs more than just one. And I think that’s a part of the storyboard that we want to always buy the Amazon rules. And then the rebel in me, that doesn’t like to play by too many rules, wants to stretch and go, Where can we go with this, that’s not going to cause you any harm on Amazon. The working would go with us deeper in the in the image and the content we’re creating, to really convey a message, why they’re going to stop and want your product versus the other, maybe five or six in your category. What makes you stand out? And what, really what comes down to your credibility, right, we’re all we all have this measuring stick inside, that we’re looking at the credibility of a product. And so it is it’s so key on that storyboard to figure out that second step.

Norman Ferra   21:42  

Right? I mean, the first, the very first step that with that product image is take a look at your search results. See if everybody Brian Johnson was on showing shoes, and they were all pointing right. And so the rebel in him had one turn left. And it made a huge difference. You know, just turning it left, if it’s a knife, if everybody’s going left to right, top right, go the opposite way. That way, you break the pattern, and people will notice, we recently did something with with candles. And we were looking at candles. And we noticed that we could either do it with a package. But we wanted to fill the frame in the package stopped us from doing that. So we removed the package, and we just did. It was 1000 it was square 1000 pixels by 1000 pixels. And nobody else was doing it. It didn’t fill the frame. So ours went from being smaller, to being larger. And I mean, the they were metallic as well. So we did incredible photography. So it got people’s attention. And, you know, just look different, it stopped the person from looking down the page and went, Oh, you know, take a look at this one. So that I think is very important and having high quality images as your primary. But let’s talk about the next images. What are some some different content that people can use in this storyboard? Where should they start?

Taylor Boone  23:12  

I think really looking at one, if there’s competition, always look at what they’re doing and what you can be doing different. I love looking at what people are complaining about a product that’s in a similar category, what does what is the what are they seeing they’re not they’re complaining about? And how are you going to solve that. So that’s not a complaint you have on your product. Those are two things I like to look at. And then I get I’m going through the psychology of a consumer and I’m using a woman 35 to 55 years old, that when she sees a product on Amazon, and it’s not a cheap product, it’s a you know, to a proxy product, they’re going to go look at the store and see if they actually have a store presence on Amazon. And then when they go there, they’re going to go over to their search engine and type in that website business and see if they have a website. And then they’re going to scroll and need to scroll to the bottom of the website and look for the social media channels. And they’re going to go pick their playground. And when I’m talking about playground, there’s still like Facebook, there’s people like Twitter, Instagram and Pinterest are going to find the playground they like the consumer likes to plan and go see if you’re playing it. So for me, I’ll go to Instagram. And COVID really taught us all this, that if I go to Instagram and you haven’t posted anything, I think closed out of business because we saw so many businesses lead that when we see there’s no activity on Instagram. I think other con but if I see there’s some engagement and there’s some photos, I’m going to scroll and I’m looking for me in this. So as I’m scrolling through their social media, I’m looking for someone that’s a consumer like me that likes the product. What does somebody else saying about the product? What is the product saying about the product? I’m in? I’m going to go back to buying from Amazon because Amazon is my trusted partner. I don’t have to put my credit card information And then I don’t have to put my shipping information in there. It’s safe and easy. So I’m going to go buy it from them. But that’s a psychology. So when we’re looking at, how do we go a little bit deeper, there’s all those elements I want to look at and go, Okay, what is someone in your category doing? What should we be doing? And what can we do that’s different. And a lot of my clients don’t want to do different right away, they want to start, okay, I’ll be a little bit rebellious, I’ll squeak in a couple shots. And then once I get that trust, they usually the second third time they come back and hire me, it’s, we trust you. We don’t even need to be in the car with you. You just drive the car where you should go. You know, I always want my clients at the end of the day, look at what we’ve done. Are you good with this, because I want you to be able to stand behind it. I don’t want to go too far down the road without them. But I want that trust that we are always stretching to see where we want to go. We’re not completely rebellious and do a 360 right out the door. But what can we what can we get away with with one or two images? That’s a little different, just like going from right to left? What’s the one thing that’s going to stop the mind? Because if I’m scrolling again, my thumb is scrolling? What? What can I do to make my thumb stop? actually click on this, actually open this up and see is this a product for me?

Norman Farrar  26:17  

One of the things I look at too, when I’m creating this storyboard, if you’re looking at the slide deck, so you know, for the most part, it’s just running down across the bottom left to right, you know, there’s seven images. And sometimes I’ll take this, I’ll put this on PickFu. And I’ll take the seven images, and I’ll give eight different scenarios. And people will check which one they like the best I get an idea. So sometimes, I’ll see that it’s all white, it’ll be the white background with the package, or sorry, the product and the white background with the the package and another white, and then they get dark, dark, dark, and it doesn’t look right. It just like when somebody sees it, it just aesthetically sucks. You know, and if you change it around to a white, dark, white, dark, or whatever it is, sometimes that’s enough for people to check, you know, the image or putting a feature like you’re, you were talking about a problem, okay, so going and seeing what your problems are with your competition, if you can take that, and hit that as your second image. And, you know, this is the feature, it’s more it’s more sturdy, or it’s, it’s got a I’m thinking of one right now, it has a better reinforced handle, you know, I know that we did garden chairs, and the garden chairs, people were complaining about the string of the the lock, very important, and also the spring. And so we went in, and we focused on that, and you know, just put from the end that was directly in our first or second bullet, but that it had a heavy duty spring and it had a safety lock, you know, because of the you know, you don’t want to cut with garden chairs. But anyways, these are things that you brought out. And then we looked at other benefits that could happen. And the benefits would would just be you know, very, very, it’s not your bullet, it’s just a couple of words. And on another note, we using how to put something on. And this was charcoal face wash it was just to show somebody in like six words, how to use, you know, apply to hand moisten, apply to face screw robbing, or whatever it wasn’t enjoy. So the word enjoy was the engaging part. You know, and and it just went on, and then it went to lifestyle. This was for men’s grooming. So you saw, you know, the the the demographic, the persona, who was using the product who liked the product, it wasn’t a stock photo either. So I don’t know if you use any of those as well. But I that’s how I like to build up my storyboard.

Taylor Boone  29:08  

Totally, and it’s the value piece, it’s always we go back to the value, what’s the value your product offers over somebody else’s. And the other key thing, we’ve got to strike in emotion, we are human beings. And we’re different from any other species out there because we carry all these emotions. And you strike an emotion with me. You’ve got my attention and you solve a problem. I didn’t even know I had. You’ve got my attention. And I always look at when we build our storyboards I always look at and I’m not a Star Wars fan, so don’t hate me. I’ve just I just could never get into Star Wars. But when I’m looking at building a storyboard, I always go back to George Lucas, let’s talk about Luke Skywalker his his journey. Let’s talk about Walt Disney. You know, here’s a great storyteller. These are two great storytellers that just taking some fundamentals that they’ve made, you know, billion dollar industry off of and bringing that into your own product and figuring out again, what’s the story? There’s a story to this product. I don’t care if it’s a toothbrush. There’s a story to this toothbrush and what makes this toothbrush brush better? And what emotion can you show me? You know, and I think it was years ago, I remember seeing a tooth brush ad, and the guy brushing his teeth looked like he was hurting. Like he just, you know, it was a fake smile, but he was trying to look like he enjoyed it. And I was like, wow, that that toothbrush is harsh like that hers. Versus you see someone with a big smile, and they’re brushing their teeth or enjoying their life razors. I always tell clients go watch a razor ad. You know, shaving? Again, everyone’s got to do it. But how do you make that interesting? And how do you tell a story that someone needs this razor, there’s a billion razors out there. There’s a story to it and figuring out that story brings the market value to you.

Norman Farrar  30:59  

You know, you just reminded me of a very unsexy product. HDMI cables. We made HDMI cables sexy. Like the photos were incredible. And how like the pain point were gamers, they wanted the best. And you’re just not going to get the best if you don’t have a gold connected like it was what it was a gold plated HDMI cables, so the connectivity was that much better. I could never tell. But anyways, you know, that was the pain point that if you’re a gamer, and you’re not using this, you’re just not getting the quality. And they were very successful. And the other thing that we did is we showed people what it was used for. So yeah, you could do HDMI, here’s another, here’s another, here’s six foot, here’s 15 foot. But at the end of the day, what could I use this for? What? How could I replace them. And anyways, we did that. And we actually, like we did, we showed a lot of different ways that you can use HDMI, or even stocking stuffers, like gifting, stocking stuffers was a biggie at Christmas time, it was huge for us, you know, with with these HDMI, but it was telling that story and making HDMI sexy. And one other thing that you mentioned, the search, people will go down to a plus they will go to the store. And what you said about consistency or going over to your website makes a huge difference. If you can’t be that authority, either in the images, so people don’t trust your images on Amazon. And they see that you’re not the player, the big player because they don’t think you’re the authority. And that starts with the images. And they don’t trust you and you don’t get the sales. That simple.

Taylor Boone  32:57  

It is its credibility, everything we do is on we’re looking for something that’s credible. You know, if I’m going to consume a product in my body, I want to make sure it’s credible, if I’m going to put, you know something on my dog, I want to make sure it’s credible. And it’s not going to fall apart everything we do where we want it to be credible and poor images make people bounce faster than anything. You know, and again, looking in going, Okay, who else is using this product is there someone out there that looks like me sounds like me using this product and enjoying it. You know, and again, it’s we’re measuring everything on the credibility of a product. And it’s showing that and answering that as quickly as we can. Because if they’re clicking on your product or going to your website, go to your social media channel and coming back to Amazon, they’re pretty much in the bag. You’re they’re carrying you out to come home, right. But if we lose any of that, and your your competitors doing that, then it’s like the highway just you know, your your street became a dead end. And now everyone’s going off the highways taking me here, so I’m going to go this direction, and I’m going to go buy my product. We all have competition. I come from an industry where I’ll never forget, I was asked to speak in Denver. And one of the topics was how many photographers with ran eight miles of my studio. I thought in my head, there’s probably a couple 100 There was 30,001 photographers that were registered within eight miles. And when I did that, and when I went started looking because that took me down a wormhole. I was like I’m gonna go look at all these businesses. 80% of them didn’t even have a website. So I was like, okay, so you’re not real credibility, right? I just realized you’re not real because you have a website. And then that it dropped down to actually on social media channels, again, credibility, you’re not real. At all based off of research I had to do for a talk. So when I think about the consumer, again, whatever they’re doing, they’re always looking what else is out there. Who else is out there? And how do I keep them in my lane, I want them to stay in my lane so they buy from me. So there’s so many things that go on. And that’s why I tend to read a lot of psychology books, because I want to understand how we think. Because I feel like, the more we understand how we think the more I can help business with our product. And our number one goal is that company keeps coming back to us to keep building their library of content, because they’re seeing the wins, you know, and that’s the biggest thing for us to see a win, I can’t hold my camera and take a great photo and how when I need to make sure what I’m creating, regardless if it’s a photo or video is actually going to serve the purpose of the product. And more importantly, that serving the consumer that sees it because they’re basing their decision off of what they’re seeing and reading. And we want to make sure that everything we’re doing is credible.

Norman Farrar   35:54  

Very good. So before we get to any more my questions, if you do have a question, please put it into the comment section. And as I mentioned before, we’ve got a great giveaway today. So that’s hashtag, we love Kelsey. That’s a consultation with Taylor. And we’ve also got a secondary giveaway. And that’s a month long membership over at the Centurion League, and that’s worth $200 value, and that is hashtag mentorship. If you tag two people, you’ll get a second entry. So keep that in mind. And please throw us as many questions as you want about photography or video. Let’s talk about video for a second. You’ve got your slide deck. Now putting together your video. Are you taking the same elements of your photos? And featuring features or benefits? Are you just transitioning fading in fading out? Like what do you do? In your video? Is it just taking a picture of the product or you highlighting everything you’ve done in your slide deck?

Taylor Boone  37:00  

Oh, we do a lot of things for fans, we do that it all depends on the client’s budget. Sometimes we’ll do a lifestyle photo shoot and a video. At the same time when we’re actually shooting this problem us. Again, it comes back to that storyboard. What are the missing elements that in 30 seconds can convey on that video who needs this product? And who am I buying this for? I’m always thinking to to some multifactor I want to make sure that the clients buying this product for themselves, but they’re buying a second or third one. So what can we show them in 30 seconds that would make them want to do that. You know, one of the products we had in you and mentioned was showing that the competition a lot of people were returning are saying that the handle was was not a great piece, when the video clips we took was actually a model an actress holding the product using it with the the piece on the competitors that wasn’t working but they had mastered there. And we really zoomed in. And we do a lot of use a lot of cinematography lenses. So we zoom in and the product nap piece of of that product. That was a problem on the competition. This company made the solution and we focused on that and we pulled back so now there’s we call it the micro shot where you go in tight on that. We do the cowboy thought which is all Law Order if you watch SVU you know the cowboy shot as the tight end shot. And then the pullback. We did that so they could actually see the consumer that’s holding us and how they’re holding and using the product. So, again, we’re always looking at how deep Can we go on this video and what does this video need to convey? Because we have just seconds you know, we went from attention spans as human beings. Goldfish have the attention span of eight seconds, humans have the attention span of six and scary fact here. Since 2020, humans have gone down to three seconds because during the pandemic we turn to our phones and we numbed out and that’s caused our attention span to even drops in a 32nd or 22nd video, we know we’ve got three seconds to really just grab that person until they’ll hang on and get through the message. Even commercials on TV now are down to 10 to 15 seconds. So we’re always trying to figure out what can we squish in there that video that really is going to make your product stand out and stand out from the competition and show the solution.

Norman Farrar   39:24  

You know if you wanted to get a great example of this, especially you know the mind of a goldfish, try watching TV with Kelsey oh he’s being you can’t even like as soon as somebody opens his mouth he’s on to the next commercial or onto the next program. But anyways, that’s kills well, so you’re talking about with video. Oh god, he’s gonna come back at me. I know. Anyways. Do you do a lot of motion and tilting. Yeah, nothing. much static shots.

Taylor Boone   40:05  

Yeah, it’s, there’s always got to be motion to it. You know, right we’ve got, we’ve got to be creating that emotional field or pulling them in or pushing them back. And we, when we finished with a video, as a team will watch it. And now, of course, we do it on our zoom calls as a team. But I’m watching the room going how many went like this? And how many were like this, and how many didn’t move, nobody moves the videos with failure, we’ve got to start over. You know, if the team leans in and goes, I’m like, Okay, this is good. And if some of the team leans back goes, like, Okay, this is a winner. So again, watching that emotional, and it’s all through the movement of what we’re doing on that video, are we pulling the audience in and making them want to be a part of this? We’ve played them in, so they’re so excited, they want to have this product today.

Norman Farrar   40:53  

Okay, I know and we’re just gonna flip back, this all comes back to lighting. But I had a product, I’m going to go back to this, the garden chairs, and we saw what the photographer had provided. And they looked okay, they they looked okay, but they were flat. And when we went and did the product photography, it was just some simple things, proper lighting, the lighting, made the metal pop, now you you work with Marsha, on her StayWell copper. And it’s so important. It’s like food, like ever seen horrible food pictures where somebody is taking an iPhone, and it doesn’t look like food, it looks like plastic. Well, it’s the same with metal metals, very hard to take a photo of, and the lighting made this gray metal pop. And the lighting also just had a light ridge on the handles. Again, it just, it makes that big of a difference. And Kevin kings talks about going to a photographer where he’ll pay, you know, 1000 bucks or 2000 bucks to get the best photos. And that’s what you do when you go to a product photographer, a real product photographer, you pay a little bit more, but you get some great photos. Now there’s a lot of people out there, there’s a lot of agencies out there, that might do it for less, and that’s fine. But yeah, just make sure that you’re looking for, like true product photographers that can provide you with a nice portfolio.

Taylor Boone   42:34  

And is so key that is about the lighting. It’s all about lighting, every movie you see, there’s a scene that you’re pulled into, there’s something emotional happening. So the room gets quiet and everyone’s watching. That scene wouldn’t work if the lighting was off. That scene loses value, and I even look at you and go, okay. And I’m always my family hates me for this. But I can’t watch a movie or a TV show without thinking about the lighting, figuring out the lens, what kind of filter what puts this. And even when you popped up, I was like, Okay, I know where its lights are. He’s got great red lighting on the side. So that’s good. It’s bringing in a little flavor. And I think that’s a part of what makes it interesting. If you just had one light on you would be interesting. Yeah, you know, and it’s usually when we do a product, there’s a product we were shooting that was about three inches. And to shoot this product, we use six different lights. And we had lighting coming from every angle because like this little product is going to blend into the white background and be lost. We got to make this product stand out. We need to make this a superhero shot. And how do we make this you know little tiny product look like a superhero shot? We know what lens we’re going to do we know what let angle we’re going to hold the camera. But then the second thing is, how are we gonna light this and how do we light this and stand back and all of our cameras are wired to a bigger screen. Because I want to look at on the big screen. I always pretend like if this is my movie, and this is you know what’s coming up on the screen. How is this gonna look? And it is lighting is key lighting. You know Beyonce, every supermodel can always tell you biting can make you look pretty and it makes your product look pretty. Do I look pretty? You look really pretty good. You

Norman Farrar   44:22  

okay, you’re good. I just wanted to make sure my lighting was right. Oh, great.

Taylor Boone   44:26  

But it’s again, the lighting all around you, Jimmy I love it. It’s just it’s key to telling that you know,

Norman Farrar  44:32  

if I just Just a sec, if I turn off some of the just just to show you. That’s one light. I’ve got my six lights around me. But it you know, it all serves a purpose. And one of them is a kicker light, which separates me from the background. And this is what you would do in a product photography as well. Like you want to have that back shine, you know. Anyways, that’s getting a little technical. Do we have any questions Kelsey?

Kelsey  45:01  

Yes, we have lots and lots and lots of questions. Yeah, so good. People agree, you look very pretty. Alright, I’m

Norman Farrar   45:11  

blushing.

Kelsey  45:12  

So let’s see, I’m gonna just jump into some questions from Jessica Rabbit. You experiment in counts and perhaps make changes to the listing? If yes, other than number of sales. What other criteria do you use to measure the effectiveness of your listing? Or changes? That might be more of a normal question?

Norman Farrar  45:32  

Yeah, for that, you can always split test. So first thing I’ll do is I’ll take the images, you can go to PickFu. Or you can go to usability hub. And you can see, first of all, what people in your demographic like, not you, because I’m usually wrong. I’ll think that this is the best picture. And then I’ll get people to vote on it. And it’s like, oh, wow, I Okay, I was wrong there. And that’s the first thing, if you start to see that, let’s say that you’re you want to play around with the with a pitcher of the product and the package. Try that out. And see, you can usually you can usually tell within a week or so whether your sales are going to be increased or decreased. See what is, you know, see if that works. Sometimes, like for me with packaging, I’ll go back to the candles that we were talking about. The package itself made it made the product look too small. So we increase the size of the candles, and decrease the size of the package. And it that worked out really well as well, just doing slight changes like that. It’s all about experimenting. And the one of the things I can tell you, when you’re doing, let’s say you’re doing a cylinder or you’re doing those garden shares, take a look go to a graphic artist, and see if they can artificially put that beam of light on or coming down the side. So it separates it from being a flat image to something that pops. And then then you’ll see your you know, usually you can see a sales jump, if you’ve got a flat image to something that looks better.

Taylor Boone   47:18  

I agree with you it is about the AV testing because again, what you like might not be what your consumer needs to see.

Kelsey   47:27  

Okay, next question from Mohammed, what are your thoughts about 3d rendering images and videos?

Taylor Boone   47:37  

I my personal opinions, they look fake. And I can usually tell them just again, I’m coming with an I have a photographer so I can tell they’re fake makes me wonder is the product I’m actually going to receive look like this product.

Norman Farrar  47:53  

Usually, for me, where 3d rendering comes in is on the packaging side. If it’s cardboard, and I’m sending it to a photographer, something, there’s usually something that just doesn’t look good. So it might be a wrinkle, it might be you know, might have been crushed a bit. The cardboard doesn’t look right, the lighting, or the print across the cardboard is off. So I’ll typically I’ll go to a 3d rendering company to get that to put in, that would be different than I don’t typically do that with the product. Unless, unless it’s something like a pillow or sheet or not a sheet. Just keep to a pillow. But a pillow is very hard to photograph. And then to try to get the wrinkles out of it. If you take a look at any of the listings with pillows, for the most part, they’re 3d rendered. The only and you can tell right away because the wrinkled ones are the ones that are photography for photograph without any photo touchups.

Kelsey  49:01  

Okay, see you next one is from AMC elites. I have a kid’s product sort of plush bear, would you push more towards emotions or rather product features? It has some functionality, and I believe it’s both asking specifically about video.

Taylor Boone  49:18  

I would do both because again, as a parent, I want to know what are the features why what makes us different than any other plush toy out there. And safety. You know, we always come down to the safety factor when we’re giving anything to our kids. How safe is this product? And that can be addressed very easily in a video and not a feature of the video but just you know addressing that question that a parent’s gonna have as we think about this, the questions we’re not going to ask how do we address that

Norman Farrar   49:53  

and plush toy to safety

Kelsey   49:58  

Okay, from Muhammad are unboxing videos effective.

Norman Farrar   50:06  

I think they are. They’re very, if if it’s authentic, that’s great. So you can go and you can get an influencer to do it. Yeah, and usually an influencer, that I will do an unboxing video, they’ll typically have other unboxing videos, so check it out. But let’s say that you have on your insert card, you know, tag us, you know, unbox or tag or whatever you want. And get them to do a video for you. Or if you already have some influencers that are helping you out. Or if you go to, you know, Thomasin or Buzzsumo or something, find an influencer. You can ask kind of specifically what they want, the more authentic, the better if they start to kind of script it out. People know it’s fake, you know, just tell them as soon as you get it, open it up and give us your real reaction. And it sucks, don’t send it.

Taylor Boone   51:02  

And I’m so glad you brought up being authentic and keeping it real, because the ones that unbox and take five minutes to watch them unbox something, everybody’s left the room. And they feel like it’s so staged there, they’re trying to sell something more versus the excitement of Look what just came, I’m unboxing it I’m pulling it out. And I’m off. I’m using this product.

Norman Farrar   51:22  

You remember when Kelsey when Sabian a box of Bully Sticks came in right? Now the ups are the UPS driver came in, left the box picked it up. And my dog just started howling, like just out of the blue started howling and he wanted these bully sticks. And he had no idea we I had no idea what the package was yet. And he had already known that he already knew it was it was bullies. That was hilarious. I was able to do a video on it.

Kelsey  51:53  

Yeah, that was great. Okay, from rad, is it better to make lifestyle pictures by a manufacturer than doing it in the USA.

Taylor Boone   52:08  

So I guess I’m confused how a manufacturer would do a lifestyle photo

Norman Farrar   52:15  

where you can get, you know, people, depending where you’re you’re manufacturing your product, that you can ask them for lifestyle photos I know of, you know, photographers, or photography studios in China, that do have people that will do lifestyle photos for you. And they’ll they’ll be more like they won’t be they won’t be Chinese. And if you’re going to China to take products shots and the person’s Chinese, it’s unfortunate. But even though you’re selling it over here, you’re going to be looked at as a Chinese seller. And that’ll have a negative connotation to it is a lower perceived value.

Kelsey 53:06  

Okay, from a mere some of the sellers present a large main image, but the actual product is small. How does this strategy work?

Norman Farrar  53:16  

Or what was that kel?

Kelsey 53:18  

So some of the sellers present a large main image, but the actual product is small, I guess they edit the image to be bigger, or the product could be bigger. How do you find this product? This strategy work? Have you ever done it before?

Taylor Boone   53:34  

For me? No, I want I want everything that I’m photographing and making to be real. So if we do a hero shot, making that first shot, make this product really stand out. That’s different than making the product look bigger than it really is because I really believe people should know the dimension and the size of this product. And something I was even looking for a product last night on Amazon. And ever the the one that one that got my purchase was the one that put a quarter showing the actual print, right, because I’m at that age where I read this too, I need my readers, you know, I’m going on a trip, I start questioning all these things. But when they put a quarter next to the print, I can immediately say okay, this pen is actually going to work for me regardless if I have my glasses or not. So it’s it’s again, it depends on the product and what you need to convey. And again, what problem does the consumer have, right? I have the problem of how many glasses do I need to take to read this book? And answer my problem with just a quick image that got myself so again, it’s there’s so much that goes into it. So that’s a hard question to answer, other than I do believe the first shot should always be a hero shot. It should be the one that makes me stop my thumb from scrolling and clicking on the product.

Norman Farrar   54:47  

And you’re always if the person claims that it’s not as shown or is described, you could get a problem with Amazon.

Taylor Boone  54:58  

Big time. Yeah, and Your consumers are going to come back, don’t you want your consumers to come back and buy? Right? You want them to write your review. I want them to, you want them to go become lovers of your products. So it’s always honest upfront.

Kelsey  55:18  

Okay, next question from Victor. Do you also make videos for Kickstarter campaigns?

Taylor Boone  55:24  

Yes, we do.

Kelsey  55:28  

Okay, and let me see. Just scrolling through them to see if there’s any more questions at the top. Yep. From many. Which order would you prefer? For? Which order would you prefer for pictures, having the problem of the customer first, or first the benefits or some other order?

Taylor Boone  55:49  

I always say the hero shot the shot that would make you take the magazine out bright when you’re standing at the counter at the checkout store. You pick up a magazine for a reason. Back in the day, when we used to buy records, you bought the record, you picked up the record at the record store be based off the cover. So I believe that first shot has an immense it’s the value in it, can it be exceeded, it can’t be blurry. It can’t be pixelated, it shouldn’t look cheap, it should look sharp and clean. Because that’s my buy in. That’s my three second click. And then we figure out what’s the next image? And then what’s the next one? And what the next one? And that again is based off of the storyboard. We go right back to that storyboard and relies on that storyboard, what did we figure out there was a problem. Is that a problem worth the real estate being the second photo? You know, and even go look at real estate photos. The first photo you ever see a real estate that shows the bathroom? house isn’t going to sell very quickly. You know, you want that first photo to really be like, Okay, this is what I would drive up to, when I come home, or this is what I would see in my backyard. Same psychologies is being played in these images, what’s going to make me stop and go, Wow, what’s this product? I want to I want to buy this?

Kelsey   57:07  

Oh, okay, great. I think we just have a few more questions, some of the questions we’ve answered throughout, like how to differentiate your product. So I’m trying to find the ones that are unique. Have you been answered? Jessica Rabbit your opinion of using animation in a video

Taylor Boone   57:25  

there’s a good balance there, there’s videos that definitely require a need it. And there’s a value of showing the actual lifestyle video in there with animation. So we do a little bit of both. And sometimes the animations isn’t going to help us get the point across so we don’t use it. So again, I see value and it’s, it’s going to work for the product.

Kelsey   57:47  

Okay, and our last question from Asri. My designer suggest to make the main image vertical one to 1.5 instead of square. What’s your opinion on that?

Taylor Boone  58:01  

You’d have talked

Norman Farrar   58:02  

about that a little at the beginning. So that was the answer to that very quickly was it depends on the product.

Kelsey   58:12  

Okay, great. All right. I think that’s it for questions.

Norman Farrar   58:16  

Okay, perfect. Okay, so I guess it’s that time.

Kelsey  58:21  

Yes, it’s time for the wheel of Kelsey. Here we go. Right, this one is for the we’ll have Kelsey, we’re gonna shuffle these up real quick. This is for the consultation 321 All right. If you’re the winner of this consultation please email me at Caitlyn for Dharma talk calm AMZ elites, I think that is a new winner. Very good. So AMZ elite please email me Kate at lunch with norm.com I think they’re actually just saying that they’ve never went before. So that’s pretty funny that they they got that one. And also last are Centurion giveaway. Here we go shuffle these up. Right 321. And the winner is? Right, Fei

Norman Farrar  59:43  

Fei. All right. Very good. So with that, just send over your information to Kelsey and we’ll provide you with the information over to the centurion league. I just want to mention that with the Centurion League. It’s a free month. You’ll just enter your information. But if you don’t want to continue, make sure that you cancel, okay? I don’t want that. If the way that it’s set up is it will automatically renew. And I just want you to be 100% aware, okay? Completely transparent. So, cancel if you don’t want to, hopefully you don’t. And you’ll love what the information that you’ll provide. Also kind of on the Centurion like, note, um, Tim’s going to be Tim Jordan is going to be at ASD next week. I think it’s next week. And if anybody’s in Las Vegas at that time, you know, make sure you go and introduce yourself. I can’t make it but he he’ll be there.

Kelsey  1:00:42  

Okay,

Norman Ferra  1:00:43  

awesome. Okay, so Taylor, thank you. And how can people get ahold of you if they like more information about your service,

Taylor Boone  1:00:50  

and good as is just type my name in Google Search, Taylor, boom, try LRP Oh, any calm and you go to my website, my contact sheet is there. And norm, I just want to thank you for what you’ve created here, you’ve been a vital platform for so many people, and you’ve created such a safe place for people to come and get the information they need to really take that that nudge, they’ve got a product. So I have a big heart for what you created here. So thank you.

Norman Farrar   1:01:19  

Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. It’s all Kelsey. Okay, so we are going to be having our returning guest, Ryan Rigney, and we’re going to be discussing, this is going to be cool, how to transform your e commerce Store. We talked about that today, how important it is into an iconic brand. So it’ll be good. Ryan’s always interesting to talk to. Next thing, and I know Kelsey will remind me about this, but it’s our Episode Episode has been sponsored by h ref. And, you know, we always talk about an e commerce website and how important it is, well, you got to be found. And if you’re not found, you know, using SEO, if you’re not using SEO, then that kind of sucks. You’ll never be you know, you’ll have an address on the street and nobody’s not gonna know how to get there. So anyways, H refs has put together a free tool that’ll help get you found out how it does it, it’ll go through, it’ll scrape your site, basically. And it’ll take all your information and give you a PDF that you can give to your SEO person to have it optimized. We did a report the other day, and it showed that we had about 200 errors on our site, I gave it to our SEO person and we were able to go from 60 We had a score of 16 up to 79% on our mobile app, which is great. It made it a lot quicker. Anyways, check out h refs, they have a the the h ref free tool is that H refs.com. AWT, that’s a H R E, F s.com/awtand. It’s free. So check it out. All you can do is you know, get a better performing site. And that’s what we need. Alright, Kelsey, where are you?

Kelsey  1:03:15  

I’m right here. But actually thinking about it Fe is part of our Patreon. And she actually has the free Centurion league for us already. So I was thinking throwing you a curveball, and we should maybe spin again and have a new winner.

Norman Farrar 1:03:33  

Well, that’s it cuz she can have a second free month.

Kelsey  1:03:39  

Okay, all right. No balls. Okay, all right. All right. I just just testing the waters but okay, I’ll talk to Jay we’ll figure something out. But um, yes. Thank you, everyone. Thank you for watching today’s episode, smash those like buttons if you haven’t already. I’ve seen we got lots of engagement, a lot of new listeners today, which is always awesome to see. I know that we’ve just been getting a lot of great reach from the community. And if you are interested in learning more about Amazon and E commerce go over to our lunch with barn web Facebook group. That is lunch with Norm Amazon FBA and E commerce collective question to the audience. Kelsey, if I have blue or green eyes, the answer is blue. I have blue eyes. I do what you don’t know. But uh, yes, thank you for joining everyone. If you’re looking for highlights, you can go over to our YouTube channel. That’s just Norman Farrar. But if you search lunch with Norm, you’ll be able to find that too. We’re closing in on 200 episodes. So we’re thinking for the 200th episode to have a big little party get to know some of our beer Nation members. So if you’re interested, we’re going to be posting some info in the next couple of weeks and try to get a bunch of you guys on the show. With me and norm. It’s gonna be fun. And thank you, everyone. All your comments Laura. Amir Amar, Jessica Rabbit and Z elites, all of you guys for showing up. It’s always great to see our beard nation. And yeah, I think that’s it. Oh, if you are interested in our membership program, this is new. We started this in June. But if you’re interested in guest lessons, q&a sessions with our community, it’s a very small group, just go over to our luncheon our website and click the membership area. Okay. Alright, I’m gonna

Norman Ferra  1:05:36  

leave. Okay, everybody. So join us every Monday, Wednesday and Friday at noon, Eastern Standard Time. And like Kelsey was saying for the last five minutes. Thank you for being part of this. Thank you for watching. This is fantastic. We couldn’t do this without our community. So thank you and enjoy your weekend.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai