Episode: 98
Title: Norman Farrar Introduces Cassandra Craven, Social Media & Content Manager at Helium 10.
Subtitle: Capitalizing Social Media
Final Show Link: https://lunchwithnorm.com/episodes/episode-98-whats-new-with-social-media-in-2021-w-cassandra-craven/
In this episode of Lunch With Norm…, Norman Farrar introduces Cassandra Craven, Social Media & Content Manager at Helium 10.
Cassandra is a social media maven. She talked about updates on several social media platforms including Clubhouse, TikTok, Facebook and many more. She also discussed how to position your business and capitalize on this platforms.
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Norman 0:02
Hey everyone, it’s Norman Farrar, a.k.a The Beard Guy here and welcome to another Lunch with Norm, The Rise of the Micro Brands.
Norman 0:20
All right, so for today, we are having our special guests Cassandra Craven from Helium 10. Social media expert, I should say and we’re going to be talking to you about the updates and new features, everything that’s happening in 2021. So Kelsey, where are you, sir?
Kelsey 0:38
Hello.
Norman 0:39
Hey. How are you?
Kelsey 0:40
Good. I’m doing great. How are you?
Norman 0:42
I’m doing fine. Wow. New Orange, New orange bubbles.
Kelsey 0:45
I know, we’re changing things up a little bit. We got these little bubbles here. But, yeah, make it pop a little bit as Cassandra said. So we got Tom here. Welcome, Tom.
Norman 0:57
Hey, Tom, Andrew, Ethiopia again. Oh, geez. Hey Marrow.
Kelsey 1:02
Faye. Hello Marrow. Welcome. Welcome, everyone. Alright, so if you’re new, obviously guys, we want you to join the community. Beard Nation is right here. So that’s where all we got advice, opinions, questions, polls, anything about the show that we need to update you guys on. It all goes there, you can talk to the experts on the show there too, as well and we got a little community until it’s great.
Norman 1:27
It’s all good and one of the most pressing questions in the community right now is should Kelsey grow his mustache back?
Kelsey 1:35
I don’t think that’s fine.
Norman 1:38
No? I thought you said it was one of the pressing things. All right. So just please remember to smash those like buttons or subscribe, ring bells, whatever Kelsey tells you to do and also it’s going to be a really great show today. So if you can tag somebody or get them in to listen live, it would be great. Cassandra is always great for just a ton of knowledge and let’s see. So Simon, welcome. Marina, welcome. Mark, welcome back. Brad, Simon. Well actually, let’s get Cassandra to talk about it. So Kelsey, you’ve done your job.
Kelsey 2:19
All right. Bye everyone.
Norman 2:22
All right. So sit back, relax. grab a cup of coffee, enjoy the show and welcome Miss Craven.
Cassandra 2:28
Hi Norm. How are you?
Norman 2:30
We’re cravin Miss Craven. I know you really haven’t heard that before.
Cassandra 2:37
I need to copyright it. I’ll get my whole clothing line out. I’m sure there’s a whole opportunity out there that I missed there.
Norman 2:42
There we go.
Cassandra 2:44
How are you Norm?
Norman 2:46
Good. How are you doing?
Cassandra 2:47
Good. Good. Happy Wednesday.
Norman 2:49
Happy Wednesday to you. Wow, there was a major shake up last night with Jeff Bezos stepping down.
Cassandra 2:57
Yes, yes. Yes. I was like, what happened to Twitter? I know and we’re getting so many comments on the Helium 10 community talking about what the future has in store for him. I didn’t see that coming, though. Did you Norm?
Norman 3:15
That was news. Actually, Tim Jordan. I think it was Tim. Somebody pinged me and said, Oh, did you hear about Jeff Bezos and it was like, What are you talking about? So yeah, I was in left field. I had no idea.
Cassandra 3:29
I’m sure they’ve known for a long time coming. I mean, CEO since 1994 and I’m sure after a year like 2020 I’d probably want to take it a little easier and focus on some other projects, too.
Norman 3:45
When you got a trillion dollars to spend, who knows?
Cassandra 3:48
You never know. Right? That’s a big shake up, didn’t see that coming. But I’m sure he’s been plotting it out for quite some time.
Norman 3:57
I’m sure of it. Yeah. It’ll be interesting to see what happens and who knows, we might have a podcast about it.
Cassandra 4:04
If you get Jeff Bezos on this podcast, I will definitely be one of the first to watch.
Norman 4:10
You know what? That’s not gonna happen. But I think if I dressed up like Halloween, and I was about 100 pounds less. I could shave the beard. I could pull off a Jeff Bezos.
Cassandra 4:23
I think you could. Yeah, I don’t doubt that. I don’t think you’ve ever been to Helium 10 HQ. But you haven’t? We do have a life size cutout of Jeff Bezos for photo op if you ever do come by. I mean, that’s kind of my incentive to get out of quarantine life just for those pictures alone.
Norman 4:47
Oh, yeah. There we go. So now I have to go
Cassandra 4:51
For anything if that.
Norman 4:53
We have a bit of a giveaway today and why don’t we talk about that. So we’ll talk about it now. We’ll talk a bit about halfway through and then at the end just to give people time to get one of the giveaways.
Cassandra 5:06
Oh, exciting. Yes, we’ve got a couple of Helium 10 T-shirts. Now, I saw some people in the comments who are gearing up that may have been previous winners from other live chats with Tim Jordan on ANPM or Helium 10. But definitely, we’ve got some options for you. So, if you get picked again, we can send out some special stuff to you. But it’s two T-shirts. Otherwise, if you’re a recurring winner, we can pivot and do something new but otherwise, to Helium 10 T-shirts from the spring collection coming up in 2021.
Norman 5:41
All right, very good. Okay. So let’s dive into this.
Kelsey 5:49
Before we dive into that, how do they enter? We’re going to do a hashtag because you mentioned it Norm, #cravingcraven to join. So hashtag #cravingcraven in the comments and that’ll get you entered for one of two Helium 10 t shirts.
Norman 6:15
All right, very good. Okay, so now unless Kelsey’s gonna rudely interrupt me again. But anyways, let’s talk about social media. What are some big changes in 2021?
Cassandra 6:27
Okay, so speaking of things we didn’t see coming. In 2019 and early 2020, we were up in the club, and that was a nightclub, but now we’re up in the Clubhouse.
Norman 6:39
Yes.
Cassandra 6:40
Are you a Clubhouser Norm?
Norman 6:42
I’m a Clubhouser.
Cassandra 6:43
You’re in the club?
Norman 6:45
I am in the club.
Cassandra 6:46
I have to say, I think this really took off. Like just on fire overnight. It’s like it ignited and it was all these celebrities coming on board. I don’t think any of us could have planned or pivoted for it. I always keep very abreast to all the social media trends and what’s coming out in 2021 and all that and Clubhouse was not on that list and it just caught fire and I am so impressed to see the engagement around it and the following that people that everyone’s using it from rappers to entrepreneurs and influencers. It’s a huge deal and I think that more brands are going to start jumping on it. We have our experts, our team of Helium 10 experts who are often seen in Clubhouse live chats and streaming and chatting with everyone. Especially, what was it on Sunday? I don’t know if you caught it Norm, Elon Musk was hopping in.
Norman 7:43
Yeah.
Cassandra 7:45
Did you partake?
Norman 7:46
No, no. 10 o’clock I’m having warm milk and going to bed.
Cassandra 7:53
Me too. He was like an early bird special for us. But I think that’s the connectivity is so exciting to see that there’s this streamline to these huge names, these innovators, these entrepreneurs that is unlike anything else and I think especially with maybe we’re kind of going through this live chat, live stream I don’t want to say burnout but it’s a different type of chat. It’s a different type of connection. You’re not looking at people, you don’t have to get glammed up like you and I Norm, this is our regular routine. It’s more of you can be kind of laying in bed and share your thoughts and I think it lowers inhibitions. I think people are more raw and real and I can only see that growing in 2021 especially as more people are still working from home and networking in person is limited. So I see that only going bigger and better moving into the year.
Norman 8:55
Yeah, it’s definitely working its way out. Trying to figure out what it is and like at the very beginning, this is crazy. Around Christmas, Isabella Hamilton, Paul Baron, Rich Goldstein and myself. We’re about the only four people on Clubhouse that I knew off.
Cassandra 9:16
Trailblazer. You’re a trailblazer?
Norman 9:18
It was all Paul like policy. Have you heard of this? No and then like Paul’s on it 24/7. It is a time suck. That’s the thing. Yeah, it is a time suck. But four brands and this is where I want to take this is right now you got a lot of people talking about courses. You got a lot of people talking about eCommerce, you’ve got a lot of new people that are trying to get in and understand. How they can get into Amazon or eCommerce. But where it’s going, I think I can see where if I’m in the pet niche and I’m selling bully sticks and I want to build a community of dog lovers, I will do that. Even with this, the way that we’re going to be doing our podcasts are, we’ll be talking like we are today and then going over to Clubhouse and having an interaction back and forth with the group. So we’ll have the three people that were on over the week, and then just talk, just to have a Clubhouse and then that way you can have that interaction, which it’s nice here with the comments. A lot of people don’t want to come on live, but with Clubhouse it makes it so easy and I will say one other thing about Clubhouse, we did a Clubhouse 101 last week and Colin Campbell was on and he’s the owner of .club and he was talking about how clubs have just taken off, how brands are buying the .clubs, how brands are buying keywords, because the .club, almost on Google, it’s become number one very quickly. You point right over to your club, and that can help you out with rankings. But the other part to this is getting your .club so you can have a club registered for your brand. So yeah, it might be whatever, bob’s bully sticks.club, and you register bob’s bully sticks.club, or pet or whatever. Then you can start talking and you have it already set. For me, it takes a look and this is quite interesting, because I had no idea a social media platform could make such a shift in the domain structure from .com to a .club. It’s amazing. It’s in Forbes right now talking about it. It was in, was it? Wall Street? Anyways it was in another paper. It was also, I’m not sure if it was Reuters, but I’ve read a couple of articles just talking about the .club explosion because of Clubhouse. Anyway, I think that is definitely the focus of this year and it’s exploded. It absolutely exploded. But how do you get around the time suck? I don’t know.
Cassandra 12:17
I mean, and especially when it’s something so engaging, or you’re working and you have it on in the background, you’re kind of dipping in and out and talking. I mean, Hey, that’s something we all have to kind of time management on our own. But I will say, you’re talking to me, Forbes, and it’s revolutionising things and what I still find really impressive about Clubhouse and I think a lot of entrepreneurs and Amazon sellers in our space can relate to this. They’re still relatively a small team. It’s not like Facebook, it’s not huge. This isn’t some big conglomerate that we’ve got going on there and that’s also what I feel like, it’s interesting and it seems like they’re still rolling out new features. They’re still, this is not I think all it has to offer, I think there’s already a game plan for the future for more innovative, more trailblazing unique features. So I’m really looking forward to see what they have in store for us and I’m actually looking forward to seeing them grow. Because I think it’s going to be an interesting case study, if you will, for the social media age in 2021 definitely, and the exclusivity, I have to say that was kind of a genius marketing plan there. I know that some people who are on androids don’t have functionality for it yet. But, everyone wants to be in the exclusivity in the club and have this inside track to certain people and certain knowledge and things like that and I just think that that is such a genius brand marketing tactic that they use. So especially small startups.
Norman 13:54
Yeah, the other thing I’ve noticed there is now, I don’t know where this is gonna go. I have never heard it talked about. But I feel that companies, if this explodes the way that I think is going to explode, will hire brand ambassadors, marketing team to be on Clubhouse, and just be that brand ambassador, talking about the brand and I don’t know and for you that don’t know, when you join Clubhouse, you can start a room, and it doesn’t matter and the other thing that’s important too, is it doesn’t matter how many people you follow. I know some people want to go, Oh, I’m following 1000 people on or I’ve got 100,000 followers and I’m following 100 people.
Cassandra 14:49
Right.
Norman 14:50
Oh look, I’m cool. But with Clubhouse, you can go out and it could be 10,000, 12,000. It doesn’t really matter what it’s doing is you’re showing you’re engaging with it. I don’t know anything about the algorithm and as this starts to develop, you will know. But what I feel is that if I can hire somebody that knows my brand and knows what we’re all about and knows the culture of my company, and get them onto Clubhouse, this is like the beginning of .com This is like the beginning of Facebook. You’re in as an early adapter.
Cassandra 15:26
Yep. I 100% agree with you and I love that you also made that analogy. Because I often think of things like the .com, boom, even though I was so young Norm when that happened.
Norman 15:43
You weren’t even born.
Cassandra 15:45
I love the 90s when I got the recap, but I always think of social media. I look for that I see that, that same game kind of replayed, or those same instances, and I like that you made the same parallels, because I’m always thinking in the same thought space. So Norm, we’re right here Norm. We’re getting there. Exactly. Oh man. Norm, I am going to say something that I saw someone talking about, like Instagram Reels. They put up the chat, something that I’m actually really surprised by, again, a lot of these. We didn’t come prepared. We didn’t know what was gonna happen in 2021. Not sure if you’ve seen on your brand pages, but Facebook is actually getting rid of Facebook stories. Have you seen that? The pop up come up on yours?
Norman 16:34
Kelsey?
Cassandra 16:35
Kelsey, breaking news. Are you on?
Kelsey 16:37
I haven’t heard anything about this yet.
Cassandra 16:39
I’ve gotten a reminder that as of a certain date in February, I’ll have to double check that I’ll put it in the comments after this that, yeah, they’re getting rid of Facebook stories and it’s only going to live on Instagram now and I think that’s an interesting play. I wasn’t expecting from them, especially with so much content geared for that. Those dimensions, those sizes that quick see it in your feed at the top, so I’m a little surprised they’re doing that and I wonder what the long, kind of the long game is on that?
Norman 17:12
Why?
Kelsey 17:13
For me, I always gravitate towards Instagram stories. I don’t know if it’s just maybe my demographic or overall, like, if people are using Facebook stories as much as Instagram.
Cassandra 17:27
I don’t think so.
Kelsey 17:28
I’ve never really gone to Facebook and be like, Oh, I’ve got to post a story on there. But like, I’ll post on Instagram, for sure. But it’s interesting, though.
Cassandra 17:38
Yeah, I’ll definitely send some more information along to all of our viewers, inquiring viewers. No, but I think and I think that Kelsey is very right. Instagram stories and I know like Twitter released Fleets recently. There’s LinkedIn stories through the app. So that’s interesting. What I did like Facebook stories for is I think it may have hit a certain demographic of people. So that’s always good. Maybe you’re kind of losing out on that engagement now, but I do like that when you posted a Facebook story, you could get like a little preview of what it is at the top and so you kind of know what you’re in store for? Or, you see that you’re like, wait, what’s going on there? What did she post? What did this brand post? So I’m interested to see if anything changes or if they have something new planned for how they’re going to be integrating that type of content moving forward. So we’ll have to keep an eye on that as well.
Norman 18:28
Yeah, there’s so many different changes going on right now. Like you’re talking about Twitter, now trying to compete. We just got the LinkedIn stories. I’m wondering about spending time on social media. So right now we have a variety of social media outlets that we work with. We have a variety of different things we have to do. Kelsey puts things in front of me that I got to do. Oh you gotta do this on Monday, you got to do, I was sitting there. Wow, it takes a lot of time. But at the end of the day, we’re hoping content pays off, and we can build the community that we want to do or build. What do you recommend for the average person, the average brand? Should they spread out and do everything or should they or should they just concentrate on one or two?
Cassandra 19:22
I know it’s exhausting the thought, right? Especially when you’re a new brand, I’ve always said, you want to test things out. You want to see if certain content resonates with certain audiences on different platforms, but some social channels, it’s so much harder to grow and engage than others. I think something that was noted recently, I was reading like in social media today or one of the publications that we often referenced. TikTok, I mean, the barrier to entry and engagement and it’s such a high likelihood for virality and so more brands are pivoting there, anyone can go viral and I think that’s what makes it exciting. You’re almost kind of like, is this going to be the TikTok, even for average people, is this going to be the TikTok that makes me TikTok famous or goes viral and becomes a hit? So, and that can spearhead so much more, whereas we always talk about Instagram and their algorithms being so much more difficult or it’s out of sync with when it was actually posted, something can get posted at 8am and you don’t see it till 8pm or you see recurring content. So, some platforms like Instagram, I think makes it a little more difficult to go viral, or really catch fire, if you will, and get that engagement, whereas TikTok is a lower barrier to entry. I think Twitter has that possibility as well. But I’ve noticed over the years, I think it was easier to go viral on Twitter, in like early, I don’t wanna say early 2000s, but maybe like, 2011, 12, especially when that was like a very mainstay initiative with a lot of like television networks. You would tweet in your thoughts, and we’ll put you on the scroll along the bottom. Now, I don’t think it’s as easy to go viral on Twitter and then there’s so much crossover as well. I’m sure you’ve noticed that you see tweets and memes and things like that posted to Instagram, you see TikToks posted on Instagram, everything kind of like, gets accumulated on that channel. So it’s kind of difficult. I would say it’s a big AB testing ground and just see what works. But once you kind of get in your flow, and you see where you’re gaining the engagement, you’re gaining traction, you’re gaining followers, that’s where I would start to put more of my time because you know the results, like the likelihood for positive results are there as opposed to Okay, I’m going to put all this effort and energy and I’m sure if you’re starting out, you’re strapped for time as it is. Put your energy into something that has a higher chance of making an impact. That’d be my advice.
Norman 21:58
Good and I just saw Fatiha, she was talking about she just got an iPhone for Clubhouse.
Cassandra 22:05
Oh my gosh.
Norman 22:06
Tim Jordan did too.
Cassandra 22:08
No way.
Norman 22:09
He didn’t have an iPhone. He had to run out to get an iPhone. He’ll tell you his story about his burner phone.
Cassandra 22:15
Maybe Apple and Clubhouse were colluding Norm.
Norman 22:22
Who knows?
Cassandra 22:23
I mean, now we switch this over to a conspiracy theory.
Norman 22:27
We can start one. There we go.
Cassandra 22:30
Exactly.
Norman 22:33
Kelsey, before we go any further, are there any questions that have come up so far?
Kelsey 22:38
Yeah. Before we do that, for the T-shirts, I think we should make clarification. Is it for the US only or is it for anyone?
Cassandra 22:48
Anyone.
Kelsey 22:51
Anyone. Perfect. All right.
Cassandra 22:56
I’m nervous but also excited.
Kelsey 22:58
Alright, perfect. I know our Beard Nation is always looking to get out of the US only thing.
Cassandra 23:05
I would say though, that sometimes the shipping does take longer if you’re International, depending on where you’re located but we can do it. So just put that in mind.
Kelsey 23:13
Perfect. So from Fatiha, what do you see Helium 10 doing in the future on Clubhouse that they’re not doing now?
Cassandra 23:24
I love this. There’s been a lot of talk of this, I will say, and what I do love about Helium 10 is our company culture and we have ideas from all departments and one of our affiliate managers was so excited about Clubhouse. He was all about it. His name is Sean, shout out to Sean. I’m sure many of you know him. But he was so excited about it. He was posting about it over the holidays, things like that and that really started to catch our attention. Bradley’s on it now. We’ve gotten a lot of questions about this. I know Vince, our PPC Expert for ads. I think he’s setting up his Clubhouse, but he’s gonna start getting into more chats. We actually did a poll with him. He does TACoS Tuesday and we said like, Hey, would you guys want to join a Clubhouse chat with Vince. So that’s in the future, that’s in the works. So definitely we’re going to have more of our ambassadors, our experts coming into Clubhouse starting their own chat, starting their own in the club, get it going, fireside chats, Q and A’s and I think it’s a really great opportunity to really not only leverage our expertise, but connect with new people, getting the conversation so yes, look for that. How about the Helium 10 Club? I like it. I hope we get some shirts that say that.
Norman 24:42
Very good.
Cassandra 24:44
Hey girl, I know I should be more on Clubhouse. I have to say I was nervous going back about like the time suck that we talked about. Because I got on it for a while and I was like, Okay man, I’m not doing anything. I need to go do some work. So that’s why I’ve tried to limit my Clubhouse usage, but alright, just to really get an eye on there.
Kelsey 25:04
Yeah, I wonder how people find the time? Like how, like to the audience, how often are you actually on Clubhouse? Like per hour or per week? Is it like five hours a week? Is it 20? I feel like some people are like 40.
Norman 25:21
I know people that are Paul Baron, Rich Goldstein, and you know what, when they got started doing this, and they participated, what ended up happening, and this is a great result. I don’t know how it’s gonna go in the future. But they ended up getting a ton of followers and within your profile, so when you’re writing your profile, don’t leave it blank, you want to put what you’re interested in. So Amazon or eCom, and you’ll start to get messages that way. But you’ll start to get followers and I couldn’t explain, I came up. Kelsey is here right now. So I remember a couple weeks ago, I went up and so what’s happening with our Instagram? Why are we getting all these likes, and it’s all coming from Clubhouse, because when you’re on, your Instagram, at least in mine, it goes over to Instagram. So all of a sudden you get all these new people that are following you on Instagram or commenting or building engagement. So there is a plus. But at the end of the day, I’ll let Paul do it. It’s a lot of time.
Cassandra 26:30
Something else I’ve noticed and what I do love about Clubhouse is and maybe Norm you’ve experienced this. I feel like I’ve connected with people from past jobs and things like that, or other people I’ve networked before that I hadn’t talked to in years, because now it’s this like you’re reconnecting. A blogger I worked with like five years ago in television. She’s the one who invited me and I was like, I think it reinforces networking and relationships, too. So that’s exciting. I think that’s a cool thing to see.
Norman 26:59
Yeah, absolutely. So we’ve got all these different things that are happening in all these different social networks and what I’m talking about, like Instagram stories, Reels, just ongoing engagement. Is there anything that a person should just concentrate on or should you try to get the mixture of the three going?
Cassandra 27:22
I would say my best bet or my best advice, I think TikTok is where it’s at. Yeah, going back to the lower barrier to entry, the opportunity for virality, I think we’re only going to see that grow more and more and I think the creation behind, the creativity behind it is really exciting. People get into it and once you kind of start doing one or two, it becomes, it just evolves from there. Look at this, Kelsey loves TikTok. I love it. We have to do a duet sometime Kelsey, and I think that’s what’s cool, too. You can connect with people and it’s just a really fun way and what I do love about it as well, kind of going back to what Clubhouse is, again, Norm we get glammed up for these things, hair and makeup all the time. Aside from the beauty and fashion bloggers, people just kind of go on TikTok in their pajamas and then go viral. So it’s like the prep time there isn’t this, you don’t need a production office, you don’t need a professional camera crew, you don’t need all the lighting or anything and in fact, those are usually the ones that resonate the most with audiences. So I don’t think that we’ve seen again, similar to Clubhouse I think we’re seeing we’re gonna see so much more from TikTok and I think their advertising capabilities are going to be higher in 2021. So I think there’s, you want to definitely start jumping on there. So that when those opportunities are evolving or release, you’re able to jump on the trend.
Norman 28:55
I have to be completely honest about this. Not that I’m not honest. But you know what? That’s a pet peeve when people say Oh, I gotta be completely honest. So I’m gonna scratch that out, we’re gonna edit that out. Anyways, if I am completely honest.
Cassandra 29:18
Nrom, I know you love Judge Judy, I believe.
Norman 29:21
I love Judge Judy.
Cassandra 29:22
I know you love Judge Judy, I believe and don’t quote me, but Okay, so my mom’s a big fan too and she often references all of her Judaism’s. Yeah, and I believe Judge Judy had said before of don’t say, Oh, well if I’m being honest, or let me be honest, because then it makes everyone question what you’ve said before, like Oh, were you not being honest before? So, I think I agree with you. So I think it’s Judaism actually.
Norman 29:50
Oh, there we go. Don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining. But anyways, TikTok is very hard for me to get into. We’ve got a few there. We’re trying. I mean, I think I got like, two followers or something like that, but I’ve got to get into it. That’s the one, I think social media platform that we don’t give enough time to and you’re right. I mean, that’s the place to let it explode.
Cassandra 30:21
Norm look, I mean, I’m on social media. I’m a millennial. So maybe I’m the older generation on TikTok as well. I’m probably using it like a boomer though, for sure. I think I was overthinking TikTok for my personal use. Yeah. Because we’re gonna start doing a lot more on TikTok with Helium 10 and get our experts involved and things like that. But I feel like for my personal, I was definitely overthinking it. I was looking too much at like, Oh, how should the background look? I don’t have time to rehearse the Carole Baskin dance. I’ve got stuff to do. But now I’ve noticed that the more organic I know about it.
Norman 31:04
Cassandra, come, come.
Cassandra 31:05
What’s happening?
Norman 31:07
This is Connie. She’s coming to say hi, she also gives me my coffee.
Connie 31:13
Hi.
Norman 31:15
Alright. There we go.
Cassandra 31:18
I love this. This one is what I’m talking about Norm.
Norman 31:20
There we go. My coffee here. My wife and my coffee.
Cassandra 31:25
You’re a lucky man, Norm. You’re a lucky man.
Cassandra 31:32
You got it all. You’re living the dream.
Norman 31:34
There we go. Oh my gosh, we’re going down all so many different rabbit holes.
Cassandra 31:41
I feel like we’ve just done this so many times at this point Norm that I don’t know, we’re just hitting. It just can go any which way now where it’s so many directions. I think before we tried to be so structured, and now we’re just I think we’re moving and grooving. .
Norman 31:55
That’s what I like especially because of our relationship, we can talk about social media and just go anywhere, rather than being that structured and just like taking questions, and just being able to talk about any social media platform we want. I like it and if anybody by the way, I talked about Clubhouse going live, if anybody wants to come live right now and talk to Cassandra myself. We’re completely open to it. So, please just let Kelsey know that you want to come on and we’ll take some questions live.
Kelsey 32:34
Yeah, so if you’re interested, just messaged me on Facebook and I will send you the invite link to Streamyard. So make sure you have like a webcam and you’re appropriately dressed.
Cassandra 32:50
You’re vetting people. Kelsey, do you remember like early work from home quarantine days and celebrities were going live on like Instagram and that like people would come on and do like crazy things like Oh, shut that down.
Kelsey 33:03
Yeah, I remember, what song did they sing? It was like Imagine by John Lennon and celebrities were trying to uplift people by singing John Lennon.
Cassandra 33:16
I don’t know if that’s the impact we were looking for but it was an A for effort.
Kelsey 33:20
Yeah, so a lot of people are asking like, how do you actually use TikTok for business purposes?
Norman 33:25
Oh, that’s great. Let’s talk about that.
Kelsey 33:27
So that’s just from Yarrow. So how to start with TikTok for it.
Cassandra 33:33
Again, my best approach to it. So TikTok is all about trends. People are into challenge trends, they’re into dance off trends, it’s all about the trending music, the trending dances, things like that. So what I would do is look at what those trending themes are, and see how you can leverage it, change the content to be focused on your brand, and what you want to sell or what your goals and objectives are, and then leverage these viral trends and gear it towards your brand. So, you’ve seen it’s tricky, I don’t know, if you’ve seen it, it’s Tricky Challenge and it’s usually two people and then something pops up on one side of the screen and the other and then they both kind of either go the same way or they go the other way. I mean, you could easily do that. If you’re selling kitchen appliances or something like Oh, stay in, take out, that kind of thing and then use it to leverage what you want to sell. So I think really taking a look at what’s trending, and then seeing how you can kind of accommodate that to your brand and what would make sense there. What are your thoughts Kelsey?
Kelsey 34:50
So I actually was kind of stunned when I was going through TikTok. So first of all, I think you need to just be on the app. Maybe everyday, just go for a couple minutes every day just to kind of understand the different trends that are happening on TikTok
Kelsey 35:11
But there’s basically these little trends that happen. Some have been going on since like 2019. Some happen and leave within a couple of months, like they’re in and out very quickly. But there’s a couple, there’s one for example, that I think everyone can do. It’s Amazon essentials. So like, Amazon essentials for 2021, or Part One of Amazon essentials that you need to know. So I saw a really clever Amazon brand. They use that trend, but they just stated it themselves. So they just promoted their own product. So it said Amazon trends part 36, even though it was their first video, but they said part 36 to kind of blend in with other videos and then they just did a review of their own product and they said, Oh, we got this off Amazon. It was like a shower tablet and you’re like, Wow, this is amazing, blah, blah, blah and you just gotta make sure you use the trend rate. So there’s like certain music on different trends that you need to match. Like, if you don’t have it, then it doesn’t match. So there’s just a little bit of an understanding that you need to have with it.
Cassandra 36:18
I think you get it once you’re on there more, I think at first you’re kind of like, what am I listening to what’s happening and then the more you go through it, the other ones I do love and I was telling the team as well as Helium 10, things you never know you needed from Amazon and I love that and it’s like stuff that you’re like, totally, I never would have thought that was something I needed but now I need five of them.
Kelsey 36:44
So that’s what I was talking about. Yeah, so I’m not sure if there’s a certain hashtag on it. But if you probably do, like #Amazonessentials, #Amazon, they should pop up.
Norman 36:56
What happens even if you want to just do something straightforward? Just turn on your camera, start talking about your products, or the benefits or, let’s say it’s a fitness product. I mean, it might be boring. But would that work?
Cassandra 37:13
You could I mean, again, anything I think has the opportunity. I think the chances of going viral and getting more eyes on your product though, is gonna come from what Kelsey was saying, like the themes, the challenges, the music. If you’re fitting in with those trending topics, if you will. But yeah, I mean, and I say, there’s, I don’t know, you can kind of do no wrong, get started that way. I feel like that’s how I started with TikTok like just kind of getting more familiar with the settings and the camera and what you can do and play around with it and then as you start to get more in depth with it, you start to learn how to make it work for you.
Kelsey 37:51
Yeah, I think it’s a mix between frequency. So TikTok is a place where you can upload five videos a day, and it’d be like Twitter, it’s totally fine. It’s acceptable. But yeah, also mixing that in with the trends. So kind of having the balance. So one is asking about TikTok software, like for trends and so Marina, this is from Simon. He mentioned it and Marina came up with talkboard.com. Have you heard of that before?
Cassandra 38:22
I haven’t heard of that. But I was actually curious, kind of going back to what Norm and I were talking about, seeing those insights from Clubhouse, seeing those from TikTok because a lot of what’s current now for social analytics, social reports and insights. That’s not even really an option. You can’t even connect your TikTok account. So I think that’s awesome, talkboard.com. I’m gonna be checking that out.
Norman 38:46
Very good. Thanks, Marina.
Kelsey 38:47
Just one thing left on TikTok. I know, I’m gonna jump in here. But yeah, like you said before people can really overthink TikTok. But there’s honestly a video of a person dropping a shoe on a concrete and it will have 7 million views on it.
Norman 39:07
Well, how come you can only get me 20?
Kelsey 39:09
So again, it’s frequency and if it’s a quirky weird thing, like someone said.
Norman 39:13
A bearded bald guy.
Kelsey 39:15
Yeah. So if we get Norm to do a simple TikTok video, like every day, two or three of them and just bang them out. Over time, those will build up.
Norman 39:25
Up to 23 views.
Kelsey 39:28
No, no, you got like 500 I think like they build up over time and the frequency, the more you do it, the more traction you get.
Norman 39:36
All right. So, one of the things I was going to do is scream like the bearded guy screaming out the updates and the acronyms. That would be it. It would be no talking, just screaming very short.
Cassandra 39:52
I look forward to that Norm. Send me the links.
Kelsey 39:55
This is why I’m in charge.
Cassandra 40:00
I’m like sure, give it a shot.
Norman 40:04
It would work I’m telling you.
Cassandra 40:06
Oh my gosh, I did see a question in there. Norm, I’ve done straightforward non physical products. Okay, I did see one in there about if you should hire people, and I think okay, maybe you’re not an on camera personality, I get that. Again, not everyone can be like you and me Norm. But I do think looking into we’ve talked about influencer marketing in the past, I think there’s also a really great way to connect with people on TikTok, or you could leverage people from Instagram, over to TikTok to create content for you and it would work the same way as if they’re creating a post etc. You kind of talk to them about what the expectations are, what you’re looking for them to promote, maybe you give them some products, just discuss a rate, things like that monetary rate, etc and then you can use them to promote your products on TikTok as well and then you still get that somewhat organic that UGC feel that, that organic feel, that content, and it doesn’t have to be you, maybe that’s not your thing. So, I think there’s always options, and especially if you’re running a product that maybe who’s younger, you want that demographic to represent your product on that channel and that platform.
Norman 41:15
Okay, so if we take that approach, can we go through a couple of action steps. I’m a new brand, I don’t want to be on camera, I want to hire an influencer, either Instagram over to TikTok or on TikTok, what are the action steps that people need to do to get there?
Cassandra 41:32
Here’s what I would do. Now, if you’re not using influencer software, we’ve talked about some of those in the past. So let’s just go and really grassroots, I would actually go to Instagram. I would go on Instagram first, look at trending hashtags, hashtags that are relevant to your brand, to what you’re looking for, your goals, your aspirations, locations, geo tags, and then kind of see who are the top posts. Usually, it’s not always, but usually, it’s going to be a blogger or an influencer. If you have a beauty product, those are going to be the people who are usually trending at the top and most recent posts with top hashtag beauty brands content. Now from there, depending on their amount of followers and things like that, of course, they’re going to have a price range that may be steeper than somebody who has 100 followers. But that’s where I would start to just kind of go through, you look at their Instagram, does this align with your brand? Is this someone you’d want to work with and I would do, I would slide in those DMS or oftentimes they have an email that you can reach out to or a website that you can go to to talk with them about business opportunities and inquiries. So I would really do the grassroots approach, do some research through Instagram and then especially now, a lot of big bloggers, but even people who are just getting started content creators, Reels is a great way to look for this. Then you can ask them about options moving forward into doing TikTok, what we can work with, how you can leverage your brand, exchanges, things like that, cross promotion, and take it from there. That’s kind of my overview approach, but definitely more grassroots.
Norman 43:09
I’m gonna go back to the first thing you said, and that’s finding trending hashtags. Now those that don’t know how to find a trending hashtag on Instagram, how do you do that?
Cassandra 43:20
You go to your dashboard, you hit tags, and you look up #beauty, #Amazon, #showers, whatever you’re kind of looking for and then the way Instagram will cycle that out. It’s every post that has used that tag on their posts on Instagram and then there’s going to be two sections. So there’s going to be top performers and then most recent, so the top performers are going to be kind of over the lifetime. How many views, interactions, likes, comments this post has gotten, and then there’s going to be the most recent. So something that people have posted in the last hour the last day, the last month, that’s what’s going to appear on that other section. So it gives you two filter options that you can look for.
Norman 44:03
Very good. Okay, any more questions Kels?
Kelsey 44:07
Some people are wanting you to do a couple of different things on TikTok that could work.
Cassandra 44:13
I have suggestions.
Kelsey 44:15
Towel drop?
Norman 44:17
Norm doing the towel drop.
Cassandra 44:20
I’m not totally sure.
Kelsey 44:24
There’s a thing of like someone watching. This is an example for everyone of a TikTok trend that you can do that I could probably do with Lunch with Norm. But if I was working on this laptop here and I have the camera filming it, there would be a little thing that says when I walk in and do a towel drop with Kelsey and it would be like Norm coming in and filming my reaction to seeing him do the towel drop and it would just be relevant about the Lunch with Norm podcast.
Cassandra 44:55
I want it to happen. I think you should make it happen.
Kelsey 44:58
I think I don’t want to see that.
Cassandra 45:01
I think we should give the people what they want Kelsey.
Norman 45:03
Yeah. There we go.
Kelsey 45:04
All right and just a reminder, #carvingCraven for your chance to win a Helium 10 t-shirt.
Cassandra 45:12
That’s so good. I want that for my personal brand.
Kelsey 45:15
All right, and let me see there is to find someone to hire. Radd mentioned YouTube shorts.
Cassandra 45:25
Oh, yeah, I saw that recently. So I think that’s definitely piggybacking right off of TikTok, kind of giving those short sound bites. What you want people to take away from your video? I think there is this, we talked about, I mentioned barriers to entry and things like that. YouTube’s definitely long form content, that’s where you want to, I’m here to sit back. I have a notepad, I want to learn. I’m ready, I’m ready. Versus TikTok is kind of, bite sized information like, tell me this in 60 seconds, I want the answer. So I think YouTube is definitely catching on and what they’re going to do is have those short, you can cut it down to where that is what you can promote, and it really will drive back to long form content. So I think it’s genius. I’ll have to explore it a little more. I posted something on my personal LinkedIn about it recently. So there’s definitely some more in depth reading you can do on it. But I’m looking forward to that coming to fruition and something I hope to leverage soon for Helium 10 as well.
Norman 46:25
I never even heard of it.
Cassandra 46:29
Norm, that’s why I’m here. Thank you Radd.
Norman 46:31
Okay, any other platforms or insights for 2021?
Kelsey 46:39
What about Reddit? Having a subreddit?
Cassandra 46:42
That’s interesting.
Norman 46:43
Oh, we had a conversation about this yesterday, Kelsey.
Cassandra 46:47
Is this something that you’re interested in getting on?
Kelsey 46:52
We’re talking about GameStop and all that. But yeah, it’s a little more difficult because I think to actually start a subreddit, you need to have karma, which is like engagement points on Reddit, I believe.
Cassandra 47:06
Yeah, I’m not a Reddit person. I know, we do have a Reddit for Helium 10. Barcus Patti, I think is the man behind that. He’s more affluent than I am in it. I feel like that’s a whole niche and an interesting world that I’m intrigued by, but I don’t know if it’s my taste of social media. I’ll just put it that way. I don’t know. I think there’s a lot of cool things there. But I think it’s a very, it’s a very niche platform, if you will.
Kelsey 47:39
Yeah, I would say you can do guerilla marketing techniques, where you kind of go into a subreddit, whether it’s about social media or something and you can casually drop something about your product or group or something. Like if you go to like Amazon sellers, you could probably go in and be like, Oh, listen to this great podcast Lunch with Norm. Like if they’re asking for like podcasts suggestions on this Amazon forum.
Cassandra 48:04
One thing that concerns me is my past experience with why I didn’t use Reddit for a company in the past, and they will sniff you out if they feel that you’re being too emotional.
Kelsey 48:14
Yeah, so you can’t be aggressive with it.
Cassandra 48:21
That is call out culture right there.You have to be very careful. Yeah, exactly.
Kelsey 48:28
But then if you want to start like your own subreddit, that’s its own thing, too that you can view like, for building a community. For example, like the Joe Rogan podcast has a Joe Rogan subreddit and Helium 10 could have a Helium 10 subreddit.
Cassandra 48:45
I think we have Barcus Patti. Yeah, hit him up. He’ll have more information for you. Shout out to Barcus.
Kelsey 48:52
Dr. Koz, do you recommend getting as much friends as possible to obtain as much exposure for more likes and comments?
Cassandra 49:00
I never have enough friends. Right, Kelsey? That always helps. But going back to like a TikTok. I don’t have that many followers on TikTok but I’ve gotten hundreds of views and I have more followers on Instagram and oftentimes it’s more difficult to get a certain number of likes or comments and things like that. So I think certain platforms, it’s definitely more make or break. But I would say with TikTok, I don’t even think you need to have that many followers to increase your morality or increase your awareness and engagement. That would be my insight.
Norman 49:38
I got one last thought and that’s Quora. What are your thoughts on Quora?
Cassandra 49:46
What are your thoughts on Quora Norm? I haven’t dived into it enough.
Norman 49:53
So Quora is incredible. You’re basically screening questions, right? The more you comment, the more engagement you’ll get, or the more engagement, people are going to start to follow you. You become the authority and that’s why I love press releases and content because you want to become the authority so people can trust you. Quora is an outlet for that. You have to write responses, you have to be accurate and if you get voted the best answer, then you’re going to get promoted that much more. But especially for brands, you could clean up if you’re a brand, or if you’re a vacation rental, and you’re answering questions about Hawaii. It’s so broad, and not that many people are really paying that much attention to Quora and that’s with a Q, Q u o r a. So it’s something we don’t do enough of, to do a ton of it when I first started my one brand, and we’d be on there all the time just answering questions about soap.
Cassandra 51:01
I mean, that’s hours of fun right there Norm. No, and I agree, I think there’s definitely a place for it. I think there’s definitely benefits to it. I would say yes, I haven’t really taken the time to deep dive into it or what it can really do. But I trust your opinion and your expertise. So I would agree with you.
Norman 51:24
Oh, thank you so much. Here we go. All right. So we have a couple of minutes before you have to leave. So last chance to get into the giveaway and it’s just #cravingCraven.
Cassandra 51:38
Let’s do it. I’m excited.
Norman 51:39
Okay.
Kelsey 51:41
All right. Should I pull it up?
Norman 51:42
You can pull up the Wheel of Kelsey. Anybody listening for the first time, they’re probably in the Wheel of Kelsey.
Kelsey 51:53
Yeah. We’re working on a theme song. Oh, we got Simon too. Okay, so all right.
Norman 52:02
Look, we’re gonna be on time.
Kelsey 52:06
Yeah, well we’ll see. All right. So here we go, 321.
Cassandra 52:14
Let’s do it.
Norman 52:15
It’s even color coordinated now.
Cassandra 52:19
You’re constantly stepping up your game.
Cassandra 52:22
Simon.
Norman 52:25
Simon got it.
Kelsey 52:25
So that’s one.
Cassandra 52:27
Whoo. Congratulations, Simon. Let’s see who’s next.
Norman 52:35
Oh, Marcia.
Cassandra 52:36
Marcia. Nice.
Norman 52:41
Okay, very good.
Cassandra 52:42
Yes. So Kelsey, how does this work? You’re gonna reach out to them, and then you kind of pass it over to me?
Kelsey 52:50
I’ll give you all the information. So if you want, just send me an email at k@lunchwithnorm.com and we’ll get all that sorted out. So address, phone number, name, shirt size?
Cassandra 53:04
Yes. Okay and if they’re International, we need an international number for it. Yes, as well for the shipping.
Norman 53:10
All right. Very good. So 12:55, you had to take off at 12:55?
Cassandra 53:17
I know. I’m about to meet with the team at Helium 10. Definitely, I’ll grab some more coffee in between, mine’s not as fresh as yours Norm. I don’t get that personal service.
Norman 53:29
You don’t? Oh man.
Cassandra 53:31
Unfortunately, I know.
Norman 53:33
We’re gonna talk to Vince, get him to come over and pour you a cup of coffee.
Cassandra 53:37
I love that.
Norman 53:40
Thank you again for being on the podcast today. Can’t wait till you’re on next time as well. Always looking forward to our social media updates and to see you on. Okay, so thank you. I know you got a call. You got to cut out really quick. But again, and thanks for the giveaways.
Cassandra 53:57
Yes, thank you Norm. Always a pleasure. I always love talking to you and I look forward to next time.
Norman 54:03
Perfect. We’ll talk to you soon.
Cassandra 54:04
Bye.
Norman 54:05
See ya. All right, everybody. So thanks so much for joining us. Congratulations to the two winners for those Helium 10 shirts and Kelsey, where are you?
Kelsey 54:20
Alright. Yes, thank you Cassandra. It’s great to have her on and if you’re still listening, and you haven’t, yeah. So we’re going to start implementing our rule again, about if you’ve won in the past before that you can’t be entered again, just so we can get more people. We’ll have more and more listeners now. So yeah, we just want to make sure everyone wins. So, we’ll start doing that next week. It’s hard sometimes because it’s only US only and then sometimes it’s International and depending on the prizes. It’s hard to figure out but we’re trying to make it fair for everyone and yeah, so if you haven’t already, please join our Beard Nation. It’s Amazon or Lunch with Normal Amazon FBA and eCommerce Collective. That’s where you can find all the good stuff. You can have access to our experts. Any questions you have for Norm or me, you can post there any funny, Lunch with Norm memes you want to make. I’m thinking of even having a little contest with Lunch of Norm memes. It’s like the best one gets a certain prize or something like that. But we’ll have more information on that, too.
Norman 55:30
All right. So once again, about our newsletter, It came out this Monday. If you’re interested in getting a bunch of information about eCom, or Amazon, the newsletter is all about content. It’s all content, and it changes every Monday. So all you have to do is go to Lunch with Norm, or normanfarrar.com and just hit subscribe. So next or this Friday, we have another returning guest, Brenda Ruby, and she’s back on the podcast. If you don’t remember Brenda, if you didn’t see that, she’s the person that put snow lip gloss together or teeth whitening. She got a whole bunch of stuff and she took it from zero to nine figures. So she’s one of our favorite guests like Cassandra, but we’ve had a lot of downloads on her last podcast about the branding. So stay tuned for that. That’s coming up this Friday and tune in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday at noon, Eastern Standard Time and thank you everybody. Thanks for being part of the community. Enjoy the rest of your day and we’ll talk to you soon.
