Writing a great Amazon listing can make the difference for your Amazon FBA business. On today’s Lunch with Norm, we will be discussing the mindset behind writing a great listing, the anatomy of your listing and the biggest mistakes when optimizing your listing. Founder of the Hypnotic Amazon Copywriter, Diane Boerstler helps thousands of companies scale profit with a new mindset, flow performance and covert financing strategies.
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Lunch With Norm, Rise of the MicroBrands
Episode: 218
Title: Norman Farrar Introduces Diane Boerstler – Amazon Copywriter
and photographer Subtitle: “How to Write a Great Amazon Listing in 2022”
Final Show Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRU8XJRIHf0
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Norman Farrar 0:01
Hey everyone, it’s Norman Farrar, aka the beard guy here and welcome to another lunch with Norm, the Amazon FBA and E commerce podcast entre entre. Okay, today we got a great topic, the mindset behind writing a great Amazon listing. Our guest today has helped 1000s of companies scale prop scale, the end profit, up to $6 billion in sales and that’s B, that’s a B, not an M, as a Amazon hypnotic copywriter, she when she’s not geeking out with a new mindset or workflow or converting financing strategies, she enjoys inventing new recipes hanging out with her family at her lake. We were just talking about going on road trips. Any of these from her Washington State home and of course I am talking about Diane Boerstler. So she’s going to be our guest. She’s been on many times before we’re going to be talking about some great stuff. So before we get into it, let’s talk or Let’s have a word from our sponsor. Thank you ZEE.CO for sponsoring this episode of lunch with Norm. Are you looking to take your ecommerce business from local to global, you can with the help of zee and their brand new app. That’s right, you can track live shipments with push notifications. Get detailed lead times for each stage of your shipment, and store all compliance and VAT reclaim documents in the palm of your hand. All while listening to lunch with Norm. Ready to expand your Ecommerce empire. And take your Amazon FBA business global. Use the link in the description to learn more about Zee’s new app that’s now available on desktop and mobile. That’s zee.co.ZEE.CO. Alright. Where is the squire?
Kelsey 2:04
So that’s just sticking, isn’t it? Yeah, I think so. Squire thing. Yeah. All right. Okay, well, welcome. Beard nation. Welcome, Simon and AMZ elites, it’s great to see you. I have to say Diane is one of my favorite guests that we have. She is captivating, and you can tell she’s just passionate about copywriting in helping you with your Amazon listing. So please, if you have any questions, put them over in the comment sections and let us know. Also, if you have any suggestions for future topics. For the entrepreneur, podcast or future guests, let us know in the comment sections, we’d love to hear it out. Or you can email me Caitlyn with a calm noise, and it’s great to see Sarah as well. And Abdur and a Facebook user. Welcome everyone. Also, we just released a new blog on our website, too. So if you’re interested, go check that out. That’s on the lunch with Norm website with Candida. And they are doing a guest blog on our website with six ways to reduce Amazon FBA fees. So check it out. I’ll put the link in the comment in the comments as well. And yeah, I think we can jump into today’s episode.
Norman Farrar 3:17
Okay. Well, just before we do, I just want to announce or check out something that is dear to my heart. And that is the Mexico trip that’s coming up. So Amy, Tim Jordan and myself have put together an event that I think is perfect timing. Everybody’s scattering and not knowing what to do in China or asking a lot of questions about that. We’ve been talking about, especially Afolabi talking about where to source where to source in North America, United States, Mexico, we’ve been looking into South America. I know in our century only we’ve talked about, you know, Guatemala or Colombia, just different places in south, south Central America, as well as Mexico. So anyways, we’ve got this all together. It’s happening in April, we’ve got an actual sourcing trip set up at the World Trade Center in Mexico. And then whoever wants to, can fly over Cancun to Moon Palace with us. And we’re putting on an incredible mastermind with all sorts of top speakers there. So I think, unless you’ve added the pricing right now, there’s a waiting list. We’re going to announce all the pricing. It just depends on a variety of different things right now. The sponsors and a variety of things, but check it out, go on the list. You’ll be the first to be notified once that’s published. And I think we’re looking at Friday to publish everything in the speaker, speakers and everything else.
Kelsey 4:53
Yeah, I think so. So I’ll post that in the comment sections. So you guys can if you’re interested, check it out. And I’ll be in Mexico too. So I’ll be hanging out with everyone. So if you’re part of it, I’ll probably get to meet you. So I love meeting our beard nation. So yeah, check it out.
Norman Farrar 5:12
I know Roz is gonna be there. Yep, done. So Jessica Rabbit. Yep. All right. So if you do have any comments today, again, we love having Diane on here. She’s awesome. So if you have any topic or questions about copywriting, anything like that, just throw it in the comment section. And now Kelsey, you can get the heck out of here. So sit back, relax. Grab that cup of coffee and enjoy the episode. Hello, Miss Diane.
Diane Boerstler 5:40
Hello, Mr. Norm. How are you?
Norman Farrar 5:43
i All those kids screaming in the background. I don’t know.
Diane Boerstler 5:48
Can you hear them? There is six right now one is already gone for the day. Doing I did the two youngest ones already got through their math this morning. Because they’re just they love to learn in the middle schoolers are like, deciding whether or not they’re going to have a good attitude today. So oh, that’s kind of what’s going on the other side of that door right now.
Norman Farrar 6:11
Did you see? I? I didn’t even know he was doing this. But Kelsey started his own. It’s lunch with Norm, but it’s Chelsea’s tick tock channel. Have you seen it?
Diane Boerstler 6:23
seen that? No. It’s hilarious.
Norman Farrar 6:26
Yeah, you gotta check it out. It has nothing to do. I’m not on there. It’s just him doing tick tock, I guess. But I don’t do a good job on tick tock. So I guess he said I’ll just do it. The son of the beard guy. So it’s pretty funny.
Diane Boerstler 6:40
Oh, wow. Yeah. So
Norman Farrar 6:41
what’s new with you since we’ve last talk? I
Diane Boerstler 6:46
think I got married.
Norman Farrar 6:49
Yes, I count. That’s it. That’s a big event.
Diane Boerstler 6:52
In November. Yeah.
Diane Boerstler 6:55
Thank you. We got married on Thanksgiving, and then took all the kids on a honeymoon to Great Wolf Lodge, which is like this indoor waterpark. I love Great Wolf Lodge. It’s amazing. It’s so cool. Because you can just kind of, they have these little wristband thingies. And if you have kids that are old enough, you just kind of drop them off, and they just scatter. And then you see him again later at dinnertime. And they’re super exhausted. And it’s so much fun. Yeah, it is really like for big families we have, we have not, we have seven kids total. of us that live here most of the time. And it’s an amazing deal. And it’s so much fun. Like I think we paid $1,500 for two or three nights. But it’s everybody like it gets to like a master suite for adults. And like it includes water passes, which are like 100 bucks a kid normally anyway. And it’s just super fun activities for them all the time. And it’s like all ages. So anyhow, I’m not I’m not an affiliate of theirs, I’m not here to promote them. But we had a blast doing that. And I mean, it’s just been a whirlwind. Like we went straight from there into we have five birthdays between October and January. And so like we had the birthdays, we had the holidays, we had, we took the kids to Leavenworth, which is like the Bavarian village. And so just been running like crazy. I started I launched my latest training in November, right at the same time as having a wedding, which I don’t know why I thought that was a brilliant idea. But you know, it’s like you don’t even feel it’s kinda like when you after you’ve had three kids, you have a fourth one, you don’t even notice that it’s more, you know, what I say? Now, you’ve got seven kids training program, you know, um, so I mean, it’s just, it’s been amazing, the training programs going really well. Started doing a joint venture with a company to solve a lot of the shipping challenges that people are having right now. So working on that, like, it’s just been, you know, of course, you know, every time you go back into training, you have to re you have to go back and revisit everything else that you’ve already learned. Like, when you go and you you create a training and like I created a home, it was the first training I’ve created since 2017. So it’s completely updated in 2021 2022. And it’s like, you know, all the things, you realize how, how much you’ve had to learn to get to where you are, and it makes you a lot more confident. And then when you’re going to train people, they ask questions, you don’t even you know, like, you’ve never even thought of like, oh, that comes naturally to me. And one of those things that came up was was the mindset, like all these mindset practices, I have that actually. Right, these listings that make people so much money, versus like, you know, listing just kind of sit there on Amazon or sit there on, you know, obviously, like we do websites and sales funnels and all that. Right. So it’s that’s something that I was talking to Kelsey about. I’m like, you know, we’ve covered so many things that I’d love to cover, whatever you guys want. But I think that the mindset, the foundation of what you do is so important to sales in general and then writing. Yeah, so I think
Norman Farrar 9:39
that’s so important. It’s a great subject before we get into it, because there’s a ton to talk about. But you have a giveaway today. You want to talk about that, you know, right so
Diane Boerstler 9:51
I’m giving away two because I don’t want to ever just give away one because you know, there’s always like, I don’t know, I like to give away too. So we’re giving away two of the hypnotic Amazon listing plus packages and that is keyword infused, you know high click through rate title, you’ve got your either five or 10, depending on who you are bullet points, right? Of course hypnotic bullet points, you’ve got your description if you need a description, HTML or you can do EBC content a plus content with your image guidance. So I tell you, which type of images to use and who to put on them and what kind of seals to use them what kind of hypnotic anchors and semiotic anchors to use and things like that, you know, sometimes you’re going to colors if you haven’t established your brand yet. So basically, how exactly which, like how to put together your, your EBC, so that it actually sells more as opposed to like, oh, look, there’s pretty pictures that don’t really do much, right. So it includes all of that plus, of course, keywords, and we have a new keyword team, which is there, they blow my mind, like we, the other keyword team moved on a few months ago, because they just like they have their degrees. And they’re, you know, they weren’t really into it anymore. And I ran into these guys who are getting these insane results on PPC. So we don’t have like a PPC division as well, right? So I read these guys, they have these insane results. And I was like, How in the world are you doing this? So we jumped on the phone, you know, because I wasn’t originally writing their copy. And I handle all that on that side. So we jumped on the on a couple of calls. And I was like, show me your results like this can’t be real, right? Like, how are you getting your Akos down to this and you know, your sales up to this like, such a short amount of time. And they’re like, oh, it’s like this and look at like, they show me this report. And I was in love. And I was like, Oh my God, that’s the thing I’ve ever seen in my entire life. For keywords. It’s like, here are the nine steps you take. And here like all these different columns, and this is how you’re going to set it up. And like, I mean, it was just absolutely phenomenal. It went way beyond anything else I’ve ever seen. So I hired them. So So it includes keywords to like I want to show you guys this week’s keyword reports are like, They’re insane. So that’s the kind of the icing on the cake so that when you have everything you need to launch, not because a lot of times, you get a listing that Oh, I forgot keywords, and I have to go, you know, to get like, it’s going to take me you know, six months to find too many advertising. But with these guys, we don’t have to. So I’m really excited about that, too. Obviously, what
Norman Farrar 12:11
what’s the value of that?
Diane Boerstler 12:14
The current value of that package is I think right now it’s on sale for 997. So I have to go double check what I’m doing right now. It’s been like a big focus on training this week. We had our youngest just got out of surgery on Monday. So emergency surgery, so it’s my brains a little scattered. But
Norman Farrar 12:32
oh, he’s good. Nothing, no pressure, no stress.
Diane Boerstler 12:38
No, it’s just like, you just keep sailing, you know, smile and sail.
Norman Farrar 12:42
Exactly. So if you are interested, I believe you said that there was two right? Yeah. Okay, so there’s two packages of what you just heard, I think it’s incredible, both worth $1,000 each. If you’d like to get in on this, we’re going to all you have to do is hashtag we’ll have Kelsey, if you want to enter twice, tag two people. Now we can get into all of this good stuff. So we’re going to be talking about mindset. And why don’t we just dive right into it? So what, what type of mindset should a amazon seller have for a successful listing?
Diane Boerstler 13:22
Okay, there’s a couple things that I that I’ve been working in my training with, on with people, right, so the biggest one, and some of this might sound woowoo. And some people might not, you know, subscribe to this new totally understands. But I am like, like, this is how I gain this is how I got my success. It’s how I achieve my success. And this is how I’ve helped other students achieve their success, right? The biggest thing is gratitude ahead. Okay. So before you ever go into your research, or put your, your pen to paper, or your, you know, keyboard to, you know, your sheet online, whatever, write out your results that you want, as though you’ve already achieved them. Like, thank you. Thank you, thank you so much now that I have, you know, now that I’m seeing X number of sales, right, and, you know, thank you, thank you that you so much now that like my ECOSYS, you know, or they have some tacos, you know, like there’s all these different terms out there right now, that my ad spend is, you know, only this percentage, thank you. Thank you. And, you know, Amazon likes their own terms, but let’s just ad spend, right, because we do the sales funnels, and that’s not a tacos. There it goes. Right? You know, like giving gratitude ahead and focusing on that. Not only like from a spiritual perspective, I believe that that’s much better. And from a health perspective, it’s much better to focus on gratitude, but it actually gets your brain into gear like it starts it starts shifting reticular activating system to look at, okay, I already know, what I need to do and what I need to say, and what to look for to make sales. Right. As human beings, we’ve read enough listings, we’ve looked enough advertising, a lot of times we just don’t think that we have what it takes, and truthfully everybody does, but most people’s brains are not in that in that lane on the freeway, right? They’re completely like, they’re like, oh, I have to worry about this. And I’ve got the shipping, and I’ve got the logistics and I’ve got the, you know, my three PL or I’ve got, you know, Amazon’s down, I bring them in, I got this, I’ve got this and this, this, this and this, right? When you’re sitting down and focusing on your listing, if you’re focusing on reading the gratitude ahead, as though you’ve already achieved this, your brain will start to naturally look for ways to make that possible, right. So write out the result you want, as you already have it, and write it out as though you’re already giving thanks for it. And I do this for every single client that I work with, right. And as I’m reading their listing before my dinner listing while doing research, I circle back to that constantly and say, Okay, this brain, this is what we’re doing for this person, we want to get these results. Right. Thank you. Thank you, thank you for these results. Right. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, you know, and like just getting my branch that gratitude. And I know it sounds really silly, but I actually, I have a whole nother business and blog that has like 10,000 followers, that’s based on shifting your reality using things like gratitude, any t right. So like, I know, this stuff works. But I’ve been really worried about talking about it. Because in the world of business, most people don’t talk about, you know, a success mindset. But the way that you tell your brain that is by thinking it ahead of time, or thinking whoever you, you know, whichever, whatever you’d like ahead of time, right? So gratitude is really important, writing out the result you want. And giving gratitude is really important. And then saying like, keeping your focus on sales, right? So your first job is to write down in the very bare basic minimum, like boring black and white language, like the things that you need to say to sell before you ever power it up, right? Because powering it up is what makes people think, Wow, that’s a really cool listing, I want to buy it. But you have to make sure you have those basics in there first, right? So keeping a focus all the time on sales, like I’m doing this because not because I want people to think I’m cool, not because I want my friends to read this and say, Hey, this is an amazing listing. I love this. You’re so creative. Oh, that’s so funny. That’s so witty, keeping your focus on sales, right. And then my other step is like, I always try to visualize the people who like literally, when I’m writing a listing, like, before I start I visualized people coming and like literally searching for what that thing would be on Amazon, seeing it on the top, like seeing it, you know, in the first column right below, obviously not sponsored, we want it to be you know, first, you know, like, row, second row. So like that, getting excited about it, you know, and seeing kind of what they see. Right? In terms of competition, I’ll go look at what the competition is, obviously, we have to research anyway. But kind of visualizing that listing there and saying, okay, like, I’m gonna visualize this person with the process, like, okay, they’re seeing this, what do they want to see their title? You know, what is it? What are they looking for in the title? What are they looking for? When they go to the page? What’s going to make them read the next thing and the next thing, the next thing, right? And then I literally visualize people, and I’ll do this for at least 20 customers and say, like, not my clients, but for 20 of my clients, customers, like over and over and over again, in my brain like, okay, you know, what is it that it’s going to get them to click that the Add to Cart button and visualize people clicking the Add to Cart button, seeing other thing on Amazon now that had like that? On mine, it changes sometimes. But there’s like a summary of like other products you should consider, right? Yeah. And things in your cart, and all these distractions, like, oh, I don’t like visualizing, like, I don’t care about all that stuff. It’s too important. I want this now, right. And for some of them, like for, for some of the Amazon products, you can just visualize like that, you know, they’ll just like buy it now. But right, like, click go, they have credit cards in there, we’re just gonna click go click, go, click go. Right. So that’s really, really important. And then just continuing that cycle. Gratitude ahead, right? Being thankful reading what you’ve written out, you know, focusing on sales, like being grateful and excited about the sales that are coming in already. And then even though even if it’s your brand new listing, brand new product, your first time on Amazon, this mindset is really, really important. And then going through and visualizing customers feeling really, really happy about buying it, right.
Norman Farrar 18:47
I’ve seen that, Dan. So if you go through, let’s say you’re you’re buying, I don’t know, an iPhone case, but there’s a million out there. And then you start looking at the top performers. And okay, this is interest. Oh, yeah, they’ve got really great, great images. They’ve got a pretty good title. And they’ve got four stars. But all of a sudden, there’s that one listing that you just got no, no, no, you keep going back to that. This is the listing I’ve got to buy from, and I just don’t know what it is. I mean, I think you’re nailing it by talking about this portion of mindset. And if anybody I don’t know what you said, whoo, or would you or something like that? This is
Diane Boerstler 19:35
a spiritual person, like I believe in manifesting. Yeah, well, right.
Norman Farrar 19:39
So anybody who’s you know, that could be questioning it. And that that’s fine. But when you’re talking to a lady that’s written $6 billion worth of sales, like with her client base. So I think that that’s got to be taken into consideration and you know a little bit about what you’re talking about. So this is Just a little.
Diane Boerstler 20:03
You know, seriously though, that my, the my most successful clients, my seven and eight figure sellers who go from nothing to that like, yeah, no takes 10 years for me overnight success, but they’ll suddenly shift, I’ll ask them like, Hey, what happened, this is amazing, suddenly you’re sourcing 10 products a month. And, you know, I know because I’m writing 10 listings a month for them, you know, versus like, we were doing one every three months, like, Oh, I did this thing, and I got this couch and I reprogrammed my mindset. And I’m like, over and over and over again, I’m hearing this and they’re still hiring the same copywriter, they’re using the same advertising methods, they’re on the same platform, they’re selling the same type of product, they have the same brand, but all of a sudden their sales are through the roof. So if people are looking for that missing piece, and they already have all the other great players in place, this is totally worth trying, you know, and you can do it. I do this in every area of my life. Like I give gratitude ahead for everything. It’s not just, you know, sales for clients, it’s like, you know, if I want something else really cool to shift in my world, you know, like, I suddenly decided this last summer that I didn’t want to, you know, be dating forever. And I was going to meet the love of my life. And suddenly like, I think that was August 23. No, that was July 23. And on July 27, I was on this dating site randomly, and I met this guy, I was like, you’re really cool. But you live seven hours from me, and this is not going to work. And he was like, I’ll drive over every weekend and spend every weekend with you and date you and for as long as it takes. And he did. And that’s
Norman Farrar 21:27
because you’re using hypnotic anchor. So what’s in your head? I was like, I
Diane Boerstler 21:32
want you to love me for me not because I can talk you into it, you know, just really standoffish, you know, and I was like, I have five kids. And he was like, I’m one of six. And you know, like, I wanted a big family. And I was like, Okay, I think you’re like, of course, I thought that I was nuts. He’s an easily instead of the dorm trick and hear me talking about loving to pieces, but I thought he was nuts. But any area money. I do this ahead for like when I want business, I do give gratitude for business growth. Yeah, I give gratitude ahead. I mean, it’s just, it’s something that I’ve learned, really works well for me, you know, so any any other reason for this? Just one more thing. Other reasons for doing this is a lot of people think that sales is a dirty word. Right? We’ve been programmed to believe that selling is some people have been programmed to believe that selling is a bad thing. We shouldn’t sell people, right, we shouldn’t. We shouldn’t like that’s that feels yucky, right. But when you start shifting into this, like sales feels good. And I’m really helping people. And I can see that people are excited that I put in all this effort to write this and to source this product. And to get it here because this is really helping people now even if it’s just like a wine rack like this, this makes them feel better about having guests over, you know, makes them feel more sophisticated, confident, you know, if it’s a supplement, I write so many supplements, it’s I swear to God, I live 80%. And that the health that high compliance health field, right? Like this helps people and if you can start training your brain to see like, selling is not a bad thing. These people really need this, then you will naturally start feeling more comfortable with selling and more of what you need to flow out of that paper will float on their paper and you won’t be second guessing everything you write. You know,
Norman Farrar 23:03
I had, um, it was a Monday we had Greg reed on and he was just an incredible individual. Anyways, very entrepreneurial just what a guy it was. It was a fan. At least my opinion. I might be biased. But it was it was a great podcast. One of the people that we both know is a guy named Marc Anthony Bates. And he’s another just great coaching guy. And you know, Marc Marc Anthony. I know Yeah, yeah. So Marc Anthony’s got this American genius. Yeah. So he’s got this coaching method called CPC. You nailed it, you were talking about Wow, I’ve got this you know, listing. It’s not working. You know, every listing I put up, I’m using the same writers. This is what Mark Anthony Bates calls CPC. And that is clue your clue constantly, is that you’re not getting anywhere pattern is that you’re not getting anywhere. And choice is to use the same bad copywriter to get you the same pattern. So when you see that something’s going that way, it’s time that you have to change it up. So if you see that there’s success over here, it might cost you a bit more. But the clue is successful listings or what your competitors are doing that successful, you know, to knock that off or do better. So that CPC method or it’s just a fantastic thought every time I was talking to Shane aglow today and it’s CPC, build that into our business model, and what you’re talking about with mindset and everything that we just touched on CPC, it just comes full circle again. Anyways, I don’t want to take it out because you’re the one but
Diane Boerstler 24:52
Norman Farrar 27:02
Yes, total sense. All right here. Here’s I want to just add, this is going to be a good answer. I think what’s more important, so keywords are copy, like I want to know the anatomy of a listing and what counts.
Diane Boerstler 27:16
Okay, your sales copy conversions count? Because you can’t I mean, I feel like I’m trying to say this. Okay. Let’s see here. So it’s always going to be your sales. Sales are always going to be what matters most Hi, Tikkun. We have a student who was escaped from the table. Sales are matters most and you know what’s really great is you can infuse keywords, you want to say hi, you can say hi, hola come over here and say this. This is my six year old. See the good? That’s Tegan can say hi. Hi, you’re talking to Hi.
Norman Farrar 27:54
Can you go see if Mark? I thought I saw them in your bedroom on your bed?
Diane Boerstler 28:03
I think so. I’m going to do this a little bit to help you a few minutes. Okay. Okay, I love you. What are you doing? You’re behind the door. I want it. You know, like when you’re until you get on the phone, they don’t know you exist? And they’re like Mom, mom, mom. Okay, so you can like, first of all, like your most powerful keywords or is gonna go, you know, in your title, right? That’s really important. And we’ve, when we’ve measured this, we’ve noticed that keywords and the bullet points have almost no power. I mean, it’s almost pointless to put them at this point in time. So maybe one to two per bullet points. Maybe, but honestly, your conversions are what drive your ranking on Amazon Period, end of story, your conversions per keyword are what drive your ranking, right. So you can’t and a lot of times that has to do with advertising, right. So that’s why there are people who are ranked for 1000 keywords, and not just the 10 and their bullet points. And that’s where they’re listening. Some people feel like we have some seven and eight figure sellers who don’t want to use keywords. We don’t use them in the bullets at all. The whole thing is about conversions, right? They don’t want them there because they know that if someone has to stumble over that word, right? Even if it’s a really cool word organically, if someone has to stumble over it, then it’s gonna look good job. He found them he found us. Um, conversions, right? So Amazon, Amazon is a business, okay? And everybody thinks it’s a surgeon. It’s not it’s a business, they make money, that’s what they want to do. So the more money you make them, the people who make the most money that people get the highest placement, you know, just like Period, end of story. And it’s really great. Like if you you know, like talk about the canonical, the canonicals limit the big word, you know, if you have like your main keyword before, you know, like the first five words before your dash in your title. That’s super helpful. We’ve measured that right and that a lot of times it’ll show up in your URL as your main keyword Right? Or is that your product which is awesome, right? Cute little hint there. Um, or secret or maybe it’s not so secret anymore. It was secret a while ago. You know? So I mean, those things are important, but really if you’re looking at you know, your sales people aren’t getting sales based. on keywords if you’re competing with 18,000 other people, right? You’re getting sales based on sales, you’re getting ranking based on sales. So it’s most important focus on sales, not keywords. But I personally still have fun putting keywords in like, it’s it’s always been a puzzle for me. So if I can sneak them in there and make it feel natural, then I’ll do it, but not at the expense of getting lower sales or conversions, you know, so sale all right. Yeah. Lights on.
Norman Farrar 30:25
Okay, so before we go any further, please, if you want to get some incredible writing done copywriting done with Diane and her team. She’s got two great prizes today worth over $1,000 Each hashtag we’ll have Kelsey tag two people. And you’ll get a second entry also, questions, questions, questions or comments, throw them into the comment section. We’ll be getting to them shortly. And Kelsey, put your finger on the button. It’s time for a commercial. Thank you solarize for sponsoring this episode of lunch with Norm solarize is your comprehensive solution for your everyday business needs. Everything you need to grow and scale your Amazon business is just one click away. For more information, contact demon his team over at solarized calm and remember solarize is with one our. Okay, so you have you’ve pretty much answered this. But I just want to see if we can stretch this out. Because I’ve had people come up to me and ask me, Well, why should we concentrate on even writing anything in our bullets? Like, because people don’t read it’s a waste of time. I know what I say. But I’m interested to hear what you would say
Diane Boerstler 31:49
a couple things. It’s a competition to well educated people who are successful enough to have the money to continually buy your product absolutely read. Fact, most of them read 30 minutes a day, like, just because they should. And they tend to be much more self conscious about how they spend their money. And they tend to vote with their dollars, right. So these are all important things. The reason these are important is because if you don’t use the correct language, in your bullet points, or on your images, I’ve been really hard on images, like use them on your images, right? Or in your EBC, you’re going to lose those customers, we’re looking for something specific, right? So if you let’s say like, Let’s take something really, really basic, right, let’s say you’re selling a white t shirt, okay? If you are at a table with 10 other people selling the same white t shirt or similar white t shirt, or some kind of white piece of clothing article of clothing, right? How are people going to know to choose you, and what you do and what you offer over the other people there who are competing, and they’re all writing bullet points. And they’re all using powerful punchy copy on their images, right. And I’ll get to images in a minute, because that’s where that’s like, your images and EBC is where your copy of the most important your bullet points is important for when people are on their, you know, PCs, but not necessarily as much on their mobile devices, right. But like, you need to use that in that space to fill in information, fill in the gaps for people, you’re also persuade, like, if you think like the other three sellers in the top are not trying to persuade people using sales copy, then I would challenge you to go and take a look at what they’re doing and what they’re saying. And if they’re using bullet points, right? If they’re using bullet points, and you’re not, you’re not competing at the best level you possibly can, if they’re using words on their images, and you’re not, you can’t compete, you know what I mean? Unless you have a one of a kind product that everybody in the world wants, you have a massive patent on it, or you only only license to it, you’re competing. And so you need as many words as possible to try to compete. And people. I mean, I think it’s really funny. What everybody says people don’t read, right? That’s actually a misnomer. There is a part of the population that doesn’t read, okay, it’s the same part of the population in general, that doesn’t have enough money to purchase additional things that are non commodity that’s on Amazon, right? Who you’re writing to an Amazon, you’re writing to the middle a middle upper class, you are not writing to the people who cannot afford to purchase your product, right? So think about how much you want to charge for your product. And if you want to attract people who can afford to pay that you need to be able to write to that audience. Does that make sense?
Norman Farrar 34:23
That makes sense.
Diane Boerstler 34:24
Very basic. I have like a whole video on why we why bullet points are important. But yeah, I mean, really, like it’s a competition. Anybody who thinks it’s not a competition is going to lose, you know, and so if you I don’t mean to be negative, but seriously, like, I have people that were like, well, you know, I just I want um, you know, I like I just want you to help me with my images because we have a graphic division, right? And I’m like, great, I can help with your images and then I’m like, okay, so you know, I need to complete this questionnaire. This we called a brief in advertising, right? I needed to complete this brief now like, oh, well, we don’t really need all that we just need, you know, help with our images and we do amazing image And I’m like, okay, but we need you to complete this. So we know one who we’re targeting, to what type of images you want to use, and three, the kind of sales copy that goes on top. And they’re like, we don’t really need sales copy. And I’m like, okay, so what you’re telling me here is that you think people are going to purchase a product based off of the images, because once upon a time, someone said, That image is worth 1000 words. But that same person never bothered to say the words, you tell people to think about the image matter more than in your sales than like, just randomly allowing them to think whatever they feel like thinking, right? So it’s, it’s just, it’s like, I have a whole thing with it. You need the words to sell, you need the words to frame, you need the words to shift people’s belief, sometimes, you know, so and people are looking for reasons not to buy. So you know, if they don’t see everything they need to see on that listing, that’s a reason not to buy.
Norman Farrar 35:49
Exactly. And one of the things I think you’ve mentioned before, I know you’ve mentioned before, is that this is images with some copy that reflect the bullet, solidify and validate. If you’re, if you’ve got a book on your listing, that’s not what the or sorry, if you’ve got a book on your images, that’s not what the image is for. But if you if you’re taking that key, the bullet point and just, hey, if your benefit is here, show it here. If you’ve got a feature image, then here’s your features. And you don’t you don’t need to write a book, but you validate just by showing, hey, it does this it does this, it does this, it has this it has this it has this or it could be ingredients or anything like that. But yeah, I like I like the approach. And actually, you really drilled it home. I don’t know if it was the last interview we did, or the one before that. But when we were talking about images, it was very good podcast. Okay, so another thing, let’s talk about there’s a lot of people, I don’t believe in selling me to products, I think you have to be innovative, right and be have something different. But there’s still a lot of people who are this is their first kick at the can they’ve taken a course they want to get out there and learn so they get a me too product they do. Is there a way? Or what advice can you give them to differentiate between seven different plastic shoe stretchers all coming from the same factory?
Diane Boerstler 37:25
Yeah, so that’s my favorite. That’s all my favorite things to do. So that kind of goes back to that, you know, if you have seven shoe stretchers on a table, and they’re all the exact same, and they’re all going to be around the same price than 25% of each other. You know, and your consumer is more conscientious about getting something they want a need versus their price, which, you know, if you’re staying within that 25% rule, they are usually looking for the best thing within a certain range, not like the lowest price, right? The first thing is positioning, obviously, you know, why is this particular product superior. And here’s the thing, like, you don’t have to have a product that’s superior, as long as it’s a quality product, you just have to be able to use the words to like, differentiate and position your product as superior, right, so we get a lot of me to products, especially from newer sellers, right? Or from sellers who sell like 10 different types of things, right, they’re like, Oh, this is selling well, I’m gonna sell it for two years, it’s gonna be amazing. They can predict market trends, they know what’s gonna die in two or three years, they’re gonna have to hold your liquidate the little amount they have left. So what we what we do is we have to look up really, really close, right? So what are the things that are awesome about this product that your competitors aren’t mentioning? Right? What are the like, take like, scroll in like, not scroll, zoom into the images. And see, like, all notice, like this is more curved. And so that means it won’t snag the inside of your shoe, it could be the exact same product, but if nobody else mentions it, and you use a hypnotic anchor, or something along those lines to position your product is superior using that particular feature. And the benefit it provides your product is now superior longer me to product, right. You know, like so hypnotic anchors, you know, obviously, so people remember your product and note like it anchors in a superior positioning is really important, right? I’m looking for anything that isn’t quite like any of your competitors questions that they that they’ve answered, that hasn’t been mentioned is really important. Looking through the reviews is really important. Talking to and you I mean, you can always go back and like actually differentiate a lot of people think like, you know, what can I package this with, but if you and that’s okay, like what can I you know, pair this with, right? And that’s okay too. But really, like if you’re someone like me, and you can take the same exact green tie wire or the you know, plant tie wire or the same exact weedwacker string as everybody else was selling and take that and make it sell, you know, $100,000 a month more than then you know everybody else’s product. It’s not about the product that you got, it’s about how you’re selling it. Right. And if you look on Amazon, you see me two products all the time and people just pay packaged them differently. And changing the color is also a me too product. Taking something that’s already from the same factory and selling something else, still a me too product, right? You just have to you have to justify the value of why you’re charging more money. And a lot of times those things kind of bomb out until you stop and think like how it’s not necessarily what makes this product superior because you would have to change something. It’s how can I make it sound and appear superior? Right things like incredible images, like multi layer stacked images, images that are more technical that have you know, that are like pointing out the features and the benefits as opposed to like, here’s an angle of the shoehorn. Here’s another angle to shoehorn. Here’s another angle issue. Do not use multiple angles of your shoehorn, I will cry, you will find me crying, we’re both cry. Both cry on that note, no. Three for some. Okay, so we’ve run some tests. And we know that 360 videos, right, people want to see it from all angles, but they want to see a movie from from all angles, right? Not everybody can afford to get a 3d renderer for 1015 $20,000. To to create that 360. Right. So what you can do is you can have somebody like video it like literally turning 360, there are little things you can get that you stick on top of it, it’ll turn it 360 started off like that, it’s actually a hook that pulls people in and then roll into a lifestyle video, which we know definitely increases conversions and stick it in the seven position of your carousel, right, your image carousel and then like that, that’s just conversions through the roof. And you of course use those to frame you’re not just showing like, you know, this is like a diamond ring or something, if it’s a fashion thing. And you can literally just, I almost never touch fashion products anymore, right? Because it’s all about like, Oh, that’s my identity, I want to look like that. Right? Like they’re seeing an image. They’re seeing it from 360. They know what they want to look like, they already know what they want to buy, you’re not really competing a lot of features, unless it’s like super soft, or you know, it lasts forever, and they won’t last forever. Or it’s made by the same company that makes Nike or you know, something like that those are good positioning. But otherwise, you’re selling a fashion product, right. So the 360 is important. But with other products, make sure you’re listing features and benefits in your videos, show them being used in real life and lifestyle videos. You know, there are people who, and maybe make that your second step after you’re already getting sales, because that’s it’s pretty expensive. And it’s a boost. It’s not like the end all be all you can’t create a video and then sell your product with just the video. Right in the main image. We’ve actually tested this
Diane Boerstler 42:24
and you don’t like you’ll still get sales, but it doesn’t have nearly as much of a boost as if you have successful copy and excellent images that have the successful copy on it. And then you add the video In addition, right? It’s like the ice extra layer of icing on the cake. It’s not the end all be all of selling your products. So I don’t mean to oversell it, but it’s it’s a great way to get higher conversions.
Norman Farrar 42:44
Perfect. So last question, before we get into the listeners questions. When you go back to mindset, what are the mistakes that you’re seeing people have or do with their product listing?
Diane Boerstler 43:02
Oh, there’s a couple. When it comes to mindset one is, you know, giving up hope too fast, right? So it takes sometimes it takes a little while on Amazon to gain momentum, especially for starting with a small ad budget and competing with people who have a large ad budget. Right? I mean, that’s just it’s kind of a common sense thing. I hate the word common sense. But it is kind of a common sense thing. If somebody else is able to spend $500 a day to mark it, and you’re only able to spend 50. You know, don’t expect yourself to have the same number of sales that they have right off the bat, like give yourself some grace. Right, realize that it’s not going to be you’re not going to be perfect coming right out of the gate. Don’t quit, like take a break. Like don’t if you’re stressing out about your sales, like, take a two day break, stop obsessively, like obsessively refreshing. I’ve seen people to this like refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh, like Amazon’s only updating that every 24 hours or so honey, like chill, you know, like, just keep a positive attitude about it for as long as you possibly can and look for what the actual real problems are, right? So there’s all these crazy success stories out there. And we see them all over Facebook and Instagram. And it’s like I launched a product made at jillion dollars in two minutes. And it’s like, okay, great, but you have 16 years of marketing experience that these other sellers don’t have, and you have a sales funnel going to that product and you gave away half of them as promos, and like they’re doing all these things that people don’t see. And they think it’s just about launching a product on Amazon. But it’s not like if other people are using other methods and tools. It’s gonna take you a little while longer to achieve that success. Just be patient with yourself. You know, like, think about it like a business when you first open the doors of a business. You’re like tweaking things, right? You do like a soft launch. Okay, so most of my successful clients, we do a soft launch, right and then we look at the data and I know that there’s that whole there’s like a hype about how Amazon gives you extra bonus goodie juiciness, whatever at the beginning of when you launch, it’s not going to matter in a month. Okay, so do it the right way. First time, so do a soft launch. See if there’s anything you know, like, look at customer feedback, see if there’s anything you need to tweak about your product. There’s anything you need to tweak about your, you know, listing about your images, things like that. Um, you know, and if you’ve already done your research, there’s usually not much we have a 97% success rate of getting it right the first time. Okay, that’s compared to 50% out for other regular sales copywriters, right? So we already know what we’re doing. But that doesn’t mean that there’s not ways to continually improve that and look at that, right. So give yourself some grace. Be patient, when you’re launching, stop believing the hype that you’re going to make 80,000 million bajillion dollars, that every single product has to be a homerun, because it doesn’t, like all of these products add up to an amazing life, right? So focus on the positive getting from that product, right? Also, like there’s the whole conversion thing, there are some areas where we can go and get 37% 42% sort of, like 70% conversions, right? People beat themselves up, and they’re like, my products only converting at 30%. That’s really okay. Because the average listing on Amazon converts it like this professionally written converts at 6%. And then this is the data that I received last year, and then the average one does not professionally written converts it point 5%. And those people are going under, right. So like, uh, who was it that has, like, it might be it’s not isn’t selling somebody sell eggs I love so this, um, someone has gone through and grabbed all the data for average conversion rates in each category, and they have it on their website. So you can go and look like, hey, if I’m doing like, if it’s averages 7.4%, I think I think it was like, the household categories, like 7.48%. So like, if I’m getting 20% conversions, or 80% conversions, I’m smoking most people who are doing this right now on Amazon. And yeah, I may not be getting as many sales as the people who are spending, you know, $500,000 a day to get those sales, I’m only spending 50 bucks a day. But I know that with a higher conversion rate, I’m going to stay afloat. And I know that I can continue to reinvest advertising, and very soon, I’ll be looking at spending that kind of money and getting those kinds of sales, right. So just patience is a really big one with yourself. And then being realistic about what’s possible. You know, we didn’t hit $6 billion, by writing about three products, we hit $6 billion by 1000s, and 1000s and 1000s of listings and analyzing 10s of 1000s more listings, right? We didn’t, it’s not like we woke up one morning, we’re like, Oh, hey, like, I’m amazing at this, I’m just gonna watch in the world. Like, we became an overnight success in 10 years, I started studying persuasion when I was six, I’m 40. Now, you know, so like, it takes some time, just be patient with yourself and be willing to say like, if you’re struggling in duck, and you’re not good at this kind of thing, if you’re really good at product sourcing, and you know, supply chain management, but something else stresses you out, and you’re not an expert at that. Hire somebody who’s awesome. It doesn’t have to be me, there’s lots of awesome people. But you know, like, if you want to succeed, you have to bring the right people on board. You know, that’s another thing. So I can I mean, those are the the biggest ones I see all the time.
Diane Boerstler 48:04
And then people just questioning like, why like, stop comparing yourself to other people. Right? Like, if you’re, if you’re selling a new supplement, and you’re trying to be, you know, genius, or you’re trying to be sports Research Institute, you know, like, realize they’ve been in this game for a long time and like, give yourself the grace to say, Hey, I’ve improved in these ways, hey, I even launched this product. That’s a huge, we know how hard it is to launch products. That’s a huge feat even launched a product, like pat yourself on the back for that, you know, like, give yourself some praise, and then go on to the next thing from there. So there’s
Norman Farrar 48:36
no, perfect. Now I think we’ve got a bunch of questions. So.
Diane Boerstler 48:44
Alright, so if you do have questions, while we’re answering these questions, just go ahead and put those I’d like
Norman Farrar 48:53
to know if you had a listing that if you had a good bad or ugly listing, what made it succeed, or what do you think made it flop? All right,
Diane Boerstler 49:03
better. So good battery talking to people in the audience? Yeah.
Kelsey 49:11
Our first question is from Dr. Cause. Are you a fan of adding Spanish keywords in the back end?
Diane Boerstler 49:19
Depends on your product. I don’t know if you guys know this. But while it’s really great to Spanish keywords, the fastest growing population is in the United States is actually Asian. So you might be looking at something like Mandarin Cantonese, like Vietnamese things like that. As well
Norman Farrar 49:34
as your first Yep.
Diane Boerstler 49:36
We that shifted in though that’s the new data as of January 2022. So we Yeah, sure, absolutely. Definitely advertise for them. But something else to remember is that the majority of the world’s who speaks English also speaks other language languages and the majority of people who speak English don’t speak other languages. So like most people who are going on Amazon and look at your products, probably have a comprehensive understanding of English to the point where if you’re writing in a seventh grade level or below, they’re going to understand what it is. They may feel more included, you know, if you’re using it in your listing, and we’ve done that sometimes with products that we know are going to be popular with particular demographics or ethnicities, like will include words that are, you know, like that. But I mean, you can use when you’re back in, I don’t believe in trusting Amazon, to this is gonna sound horrible because of the hypnotic Amazon copywriter. I don’t believe in trusting Amazon to give me something, you know, due to bad based on backend keywords that they’re not going to give to the other 17,999 people competing for those spots on page one. Right. So I’m not super concerned about using back end keywords most the time that we do provide them, we need to focus on what we can control, right? We can’t control what Amazon indexes us for. We can’t control like based on back end keywords. We can’t control what they rank us for based on anything but advertising, right. So advertise get conversions. Focus on that. That’s what’s in your control backend keywords there. It’s fun to add them. It’s like putting a cherry on top of the cake. But you know, there’s not a huge market difference, right? Focus on the things that really move the needle advertising.
Kelsey 51:14
Perfect. Okay, great. All right, next one. This is more of a comment. I thought this was funny. But from Jessica Rabbit based on the use of personal experience and given an invisible magnetic field immediately is created being a child
Diane Boerstler 51:32
there is oh my god, the door like nine times. Like there’s even like there’s junk food in the kitchen right now. And they’re they’re like out, I can hear them. And the littlest one is super cute. He’s one and he’s running around. He’s amazing. He’s just so delicious. And like, just love them so much. So I don’t mind like I’m used to him. But then like, you can hear other ones kind of walking past like, What is she doing in there? She’s got some kind of secret lair and she’s taking over the world. And I’m not getting to play along, you know? Yeah, that’s good. That’s correct. There’s magnetics.
Kelsey 52:04
So, Jessica also has a question. What’s your starting point and progression? When you write a listing the product or the targeted customer? And how do they intersect and influence each other? How do you deal with a lot of Christians listing?
Diane Boerstler 52:17
Okay, what’s your turning point progression when you write a listing? My starting point is always is always mindset, right? So I will go on to look through their questionnaire, right? So the people who work with me always complete this questionnaire, okay. And I’ll go and look through that. And that gives me lots of different, like, nudges and feelings, right? Always I get excited about the product, all that fun stuff. I move on to doing the gratitude thing it was talking about, like, you know, thank you so much for, you know, thank you so much brain for guiding me or universe I say universe, you know, most time. So thank you so much universe for like guiding me in, in feeling and understanding and seeing the right things that need to write in this listing. You know, thank you so much for making this such a success. Thank you so much. So I go to that, right. And then I go back to the questionnaire and I’ll take down a look through it, see if you need to ask additional questions. Okay. And then I will go and like take notes. And as I’m taking notes, these ideas, start sparking for hypnotic anchors, right? And I’ll start saying, Okay, well, before I even look at competitor stuff, I see what the product is about, right? And then I’ll go to the competitors things. And I go through the reviews and the questions to see if we’ve missed anything. Right. And then I’ll go back and circle back and ask those questions. Because sometimes, you know, like, if it’s a new product, I don’t know what features it should have. Because I’ve never purchased one, or, you know, we work on new products every day, or because I’ve never created one. I’ve never sold one on Amazon, right? So we circle back with questions that way. And then we go into competitor data. And it all starts kind of formulating. Like, in my mind and other people I tell them, like I teach my students to use, like, you know, x’s, right? They have Excel spreadsheets, where like, I saw this thing mentioned by people who purchase the product like this many times, right? I saw this problem mentioned by people who want to solve this problem this many times, right? So we have like, we use an analytical approach and data before we ever get to the creative side. Okay, so we go through and we do that, and then I’m making sure I’m on topic with the product customer. Okay, that helps us determine we don’t determine our target customer until after we’ve done all of our competitive research, right? We don’t determine our target customer or positioning until after we’ve done all of that. We can’t actually know how how overpopulated the market is or how you know, what do we say like market Confluence? We won’t know that until we go through and we look at everything right? So because one product can solve a lot of problems for a lot of different people. Okay, so then we go and we look at position most clients, like when when they come to me, I’ll say okay, who’s your target customer, they’re say, people 18 to 65, who are making between 10,020 $1,000 a year high school or college educated, may or may not have kids may or may not have dogs may or may not elicits a dog listing like a pet. So like people don’t really know who their target market is when they come to us, right. That’s one of the things I love is like People bring us like a blank. It’s like it’s like a blank slate, they bring us a product, right? And they don’t really have, like an idea of exactly how to use the words or who to sell it to yet, right. And we have some brands we’ve worked with for 10 years who now have a brand. And we know how to stay within those brand guidelines, right? We still don’t have to look at positioning, what are we talking about to make it superior? Right? So then that’s why you do that research. And then you kind of get a feel for who to sell to, right? If you if you understand the different customer awareness levels, like one through five, we’ve talked about that that’s like a whole hour conversation itself. Like, you’re able to start seeing like, Okay, well, we’re not the top brands, we you know, this is these are the people to target who already know, this is the solution type they want. These are the people we need to target who haven’t chosen a solution type, this what we have to say about the product for that. So we kind of go into that, and then make sure you see here, and then you know how to deal with the competition’s listings, like we make our products better than the competition’s. Or if it’s not, if there’s something they have that we just don’t write, um, we admit it, we say, you know, like this may not. And it actually builds trust immensely with people. I don’t know if you guys ever heard of that, like, admitting that this is not as great in one area, right actually builds trust with your customers with your consumers. So if you say like, you know, this baby blanket may not be, you know, the largest baby blanket, but it’s, you know, like, it’s the softest and it’s the, it’s the longest lasting and they’ll have it when to pass on to their grandbabies and share with their, you know, like to use their baby photos when they have kids. Right? So we’re talking about things like durability and softness, versus like, the other guy who was selling a bunch because his blanket is able to be used through the toddler years, right? But this is something you can pack up and you can, you know, go and it’s like nostalgia, right? So you openly admit like, hey, you know, this isn’t as big and you can also kind of
Diane Boerstler 56:43
not trash it, that’s not the right word. You can also kind of, like, make it into kind of a tongue in cheek negative, right? Where it’s like, you know, yeah, our Yeah, we only have, you know, like two rice team, like, we only have a two tier rice steamer instead of a three tier rice steamer, you know, but you know, I’m like those guys who, you know, you can’t really fit in your cupboard, right? You know, but it has this and this and this, and this and this right? Or it cooks more efficiently or, you know, so that’s another way to deal with things competitors have that you just don’t have, and it builds trust you like, it’s companies need to realize that you know, their products, what they are, and what they aren’t, and that it’s okay that they don’t have every single thing that everybody else has, right, it’s still gonna target the right person who wants the little old lady or the family of four, who wants a two tier rice steamer as opposed to like, the giant like, Oh, my God, someone brought me one last year, that was like six years. And I was I’m sitting here looking at this. And I’m looking at the space between total rabbit trail and look at the space between my stove and my microwave and realizing that this would not even fit in my kitchen. You know, I can’t even use this right? So but people were thinking more is better, more is always better. So if you see your competitors, and they have more of something or it’s bigger, that’s okay, point out that there’s that there are other ones that are larger, but that yours is superior in these other ways. That’s how I deal with the competitors listings. Outside of of course, reviewing everything about them. When we do our minimum is 10. Right? We want to do minimum of 10 reviews, like in depth reviews, right? And to kind of look at the restaurant because the only ones that really matter are the ones that you’re really competing with for that page one position. The guy’s on page four, unless they suddenly you know, win the lottery and have a million dollar a day ad budget. We’re not really competing against them right now. We’re competing against the people that are at the top because we want to be at top. Okay, okay.
Kelsey 58:33
Awesome. All right. So I know we were mentioning the buyer avatar. So we had a question from Yani. What tools are you using to specify your buyer avatar?
Diane Boerstler 58:46
Um, I come from the old school method of college. Okay. So when I going to look at a buyer avatar, I’m not really looking at tools, as much I’m using my brain. And I’m using all the knowledge of gains from a lot of books. And I’m going through and I’m outlining what I’m seeing in, you know, from the problem perspective, right? Because what you’re providing is a solution. So like, what are all the problems that we’re seeing in forums and in Amazon listings, and it like in the reviews, and on in Facebook groups, I must be I looked the other day, it was like, I have like, 12,000 Facebook groups, I’m a part of, you know, like, I’m going through there and I’m being a troll. I’m being a sneaky person on the wall, right? Like, I just want to see what their problems are what people are talking about. That’s how we’re kind of looking at our buyer avatar. But when we’re writing and we’re writing to one person, I don’t ever think of them as being like somebody on a sheet of paper. I think of it as being like, if I am their best friend who would their best friend be and how would I help them solve this problem as therapeutically and you know, joyfully as possible while sitting next to them having a cup of coffee or you know, enjoying a beer together at the bar? You know, so I don’t really look a lot at like My customer avatar drives a Lexus. And they, you know, like they have three kids because nobody fits that like, first of all with another drive, Alexis doesn’t really matter, we found out when it comes selling on Amazon. And we can’t really get that data unless you have, you know, like links to axiom or something. But like, we realize that we’re really selling to people to solve a problem. So how would you? How would you do that? Right? And who was the person you’re selling to? So we were writing to just one person, it doesn’t mean that that one person is the same as every other person we’re writing to a human being. That’s what we think of in terms of writings one person, not we
Norman Farrar 1:00:36
had a, we had a good talk about this in our Patreon call, just the other day. And we were talking about Spark Toro, which is a very easy way to find out at least the influencers and what that look like. But the other thing we were talking about is building a segmented list, just driving people over to your website, asking a couple of questions and building it out over time. So you get a really in depth view of your this profile that you can build of your customers. So we were talking about pets, do I have a small dog, a large dog, a medium sized dog. So that’s a great way of doing it, that takes a bit more time. But at the end of the day, if you have repeat customers, you get to really get to know them. And then you can break them into very specific lists, that would work quite well. The other thing I’m Steven black came on and he was talking about Eve drauf go into into groups see how and the language that they’re talking, instead of speaking their language is that way, as well. Yeah,
Diane Boerstler 1:01:44
that’s what we do. Yeah, we’re more focused on being human. And the human interaction, the human perspective, right? So like, we go in, and we engage people’s customers in these groups, right? So we’re, because a lot of people say, Oh, well, you really need to call their customers, a lot of people don’t have enough customers to call to get good data, right? With the dog thing, like we automatically know, if we’re selling a product or a small dog, those are going to be people with small dogs, right. And we’re talking people with small dogs, and they use a specific language. And it’s a lot of times it’s very cutesy. Right. And that’s fine. So we can use that language, you know, you can learn that language, like Stephen said, from groups. I love Stephen Mother, he’s amazing. It’s really he’s like, so well rounded and so many things. And he’s so mindset oriented. Um, so I mean, yeah, I mean, you can, you can do that, but we don’t really, when I’m thinking of it, I see when I think of the person after going through the research and reading, you know, through the forums, and I’m reading through their problems, and I’m, like, really trying to feel what they’re feeling. I don’t write down things like blond hair, blue eyes, you know, five foot eight tall, size three drives Alexis, like the psychographics. And demographics, right? I literally see somebody sitting next to me that I’m talking to in a bar, right? Like someone like you met your friend for a midday drink, because they’re just having a heck of a time and you don’t know what’s wrong. And they tell you what the problem is. And then you say, Oh, I found this amazing, here’s what I’ve been using, I had that same problem, I find this amazing product, right? So we’re thinking about them, like, I feel like a lot of marketing has the result of marketing fails, or even not even fails, it’s just mediocre, is because we’ve become so focused on the, you know, the demographics and psychographics of people, right, when we used to sell to people before demographics, and psychographics, or even a thing we were selling to people, because we wanted to solve their problem. And so I come from a different background of, you know, sales copywriter, as a therapist, as opposed to sales copywriter as like, um, you know, like, as an analyst, and my, like, my degree is one of my degrees is in statistics. So I can completely go through and read the statistics, and, you know, do all the market analysis and all of that, but I feel like, when it comes to sales copy, we’re speaking to a human being to help them solve their problem, right? And when we’re looking at the market, you know, we’re looking at whose problem can we solve the problem can be solved better than anybody else’s, right? Even if the like, we’ve we’ve taken products, we pivot products more, I don’t know if you know that, but their products were like, we’re, we’re failing in this category, right? Or we’re not doing you know, like maybe a supplement, we were not getting enough of the market share, it’s not worth it to sell anymore, you know, help us figure this out. And we’ll pivot it to solve a different set of problems. You didn’t have to change the bottle, you know, you can just like we took a product that was for pre diabetes and pivoted it for PCOS, polycystic ovarian syndrome, you know, we’ve taken products that are out of compliance because of what they want to the problem. They want to solve and pivoted those so that they’re selling a problem they can legally solve and talk about on Amazon. So we, I mean, it’s just it’s kind of a very, I want to say organic process. That’s not That’s not the right thing. It’s kind of a very fluid process. Right? And we know we’re getting it right we know what we do works because of our success rate. You know, and we keep we still go to all the podcasts and the webinars and everything else, you know, I still go and do the updated marketing training and you know, you We know how to do all of that. But we feel like it’s it’s thinking about every product as being a problem solver, like a best friend that has a heart that does that really gains us that that gives our clients market share not necessarily knowing, like, having every marketing certification that’s ever existed, if that makes sense, right.
Norman Farrar 1:05:17
Okay, so let’s have two more questions. And then we’ll have to cut it off.
Kelsey 1:05:24
Okay, all right. All right.
Norman Farrar 1:05:25
I know you can go for another hour to
Diane Boerstler 1:05:27
me, but everybody else has a life so.
Kelsey 1:05:32
Alright, from Dr. Cars, what are a few underrated features in Seller Central, not used by sellers that would help the sales. There any
Diane Boerstler 1:05:41
three features that help with sales? Um, one of the things I really like is using meta tags under images for EBC. A lot of people don’t realize you can do that. It’s so the individuals who are sight impaired, I’m not sure what the technical term is now. But people who use specific software that reads what is in the listening to them. That’s what it’s actually there for. So they know what’s in the image because they can’t necessarily see it well, or at all. But what that does is Google really likes those meta tags. And so a lot of times that’ll help you get ranked higher on Google for search terms. Not necessarily on Amazon, I don’t know if they’ve started indexing those yet. So that’s one that we like to use using your carousel correctly. So you know, having your first seven images, you know, your first six images, and then a video, right? I think a lot of people have missed out on that. Because I think it’s 48, between 48 to 52% of sales coming from mobile. And that’s the first thing and the only thing people see a lot of times before they buy, we’re finding a lot of people aren’t even going through and spending enough time to read through, you know, if we’re, if we’re hypnotic enough with our images, and with what we’re putting on them, don’t necessarily need to read the rest. They’re just like, oh, yeah, this is what I want. Oh, the price registers, my brain is being awesome. Oh, I already saw the other comparison. Like, this is what I want to do. I don’t want to waste my time, I’m just gonna buy it. Right. So those are a couple of them. In terms of like the advertising side of seller, Central, I don’t run our PPC division we have I have somebody else who runs it. And they’re amazing. And they’re experts at that. And every time they come and talk to me, I’m like, I’m so glad you know all of this. So they might be a good one for me, you know, like, if you have questions about how to do that for me to ask them because I can’t be the master of all things. And these guys are amazing. So um, so yeah, I mean, those are some underutilized features, you know, just words on images. And, you know,
Norman Farrar 1:07:29
one of the areas that I think copywriting would be fantastic with is the new managed product, managed product documents, which you allowed to up lead brochures, yeah, troubleshooting, user guides, direction, I mean, everything certification, but if you can apply really well written copy there as well. You’ve got the upper hand a, we used to be able to, it was kind of gray hat, but send out PDFs you used to be able to do it, then it became gray hat then it was no. But now they’re allowing us to do that. And if you’ve got a listing Apples to Apples has no information. And then you’ve got a listing that has all this information. That’s definitely something they also have in this
Diane Boerstler 1:08:18
brand story. What’s that brand story, the new brand story,
Norman Farrar 1:08:22
and that’s also on, like, that’s an option. Now, on a plus, like you can you can choose to do brand story, which is great. But there’s there’s a couple of tools out there. I forget the I know what I will, you guys will know what it is under inventory. It’s listing optimization, I think it’s called or manager listing optimization. That’s great under growth, growth opportunities. It’s going to tell you on your listing, if you do this, click here and you will get an extra $1,000 in sales ad. It’s really simple. And even in your product health, if you go up there and check that you’ll see what they’re going what Amazon sees is a problem with your listing, it’ll give you a suggestion. So there’s a few really cool things that you can explore right now. Just check out inventory. So there’s a bunch of new buttons there. Check out your performance health, check out under the growth tab growth opportunities and you’ll see a few more items that you know could could help improve your list listing sales.
Kelsey 1:09:33
You still want to do one more? Yeah, we could do one more. Let’s Okay. I’ll try to keep it short. Okay. And just a reminder with the questions that we haven’t answered, you can go ahead and post them in the Facebook group too. We’ve got a great group of people and experts over there. I’m sure someone can help you out and even just getting the community’s opinion on these questions I think is always a good way to go about it. answering these questions. All right from Simon, what are the steps for going from problem problem focused to solution oriented
Diane Boerstler 1:10:08
is? Oh, that’s great. What have you ever, there’s this book called Flip the switch, right? I recommend everybody read it. It’s a great mindset book. So what I do is I go through a flip the switch product product process. And so I just literally look at what the opposite is of the problem, right? So if it’s like, okay, so, I have a problem. I can’t say I’m not pregnant. But let’s say you’re pregnant, you can’t tie your shoes, right? So what are all the solutions to to looking at that, okay, so we know that, um, you know, like, you can ask someone else to help you tie your shoes, you can get shoes that need to be tied, you can slip on, you can get some kind of object to help you tie your shoes, like some kind of, you know, like, hook or something. Some people use those. So think of all of the different solutions, as opposed to just one solution, and then pick the one that, you know, seems like it makes the most sense to do first. And the way that I look at that is like I look at, you know, that the time talent and treasure, okay, are my fingers. time, talent, treasure, right? So how much time? Is it going to take me personally to implement the solution? How much money is it going to cost me? Um, you know, and do I have the skills capabilities, you know, necessary to actually execute this as a solution? Right? So and then look at the one that, you know, you can also look at impact, right? So like, if you know, if I would hope everybody, but at this point time, if you don’t understand analytics, and you know, like, what a click through rate is, and you know, what a conversion rate is, things like that, like, if you’re looking for more sales, you can go through, you can look at that we should do, we should do a podcast just on that, like looking at, like how to determine what, where your sales are failing on your listing, right, that’d be really fun. That’s the next one. That’s the next one, remind me we’ll do that, because I have a set process to go through that. So you know, like, there’s, there’s so many different ways to flip that switch from, from, you know, problem oriented to solution oriented, but just start listening solutions. And if you don’t know, like, five, find a five year old and ask them seriously, like five year olds know, everything, they will tell you they know everything. So you know, like, and they’ll start, they can get the juices flowing, right? Or I guess my kids six now, but he’s always like, ah, there’s this problem. And he’s like, Well, we could do this, or this, or this, or this, or this. And most of it’s outlandish, and it’s not going to work. But even if your brain will, like, if someone tells you a solution, it doesn’t work for you, your brain will automatically shut it down. And it’s called. It’s called an opposite oriented response. Right? So then your brain will start thinking of a solution that will work because it’s like, Well, that won’t work. But this will work, right? So even if you get people presenting you the wrong solutions, your brain will start triggering like, Okay, well, I’m in problem mode, but I know that solution won’t work. So, you know, here’s the problem with that solution. So here’s a solution that’ll work for that next problem. That sounds I feel like I need to write that out. Or like, like, create a visual for that or something. But yeah, I mean, for me, it’s just become a natural habit. Right? It took a while to become an actual habit of being solution oriented. So okay, well,
Norman Farrar 1:13:01
I think we’ve covered it for the day. It’s been a good one. What a minute and a minute, an hour and 15 minutes going into the wheel of Kelsey. I think we got a couple of people that entered today.
Kelsey 1:13:15
Oh, yeah. Just just a couple. We’re close to breaking a record. So
Norman Farrar 1:13:21
again, I got to thank Diane for this because, you know, one would have been enough one would have been enough and it would have been an incredible gift on its own. But thank you again, Diane for this.
Diane Boerstler 1:13:32
Yeah, my pleasure.
Norman Farrar 1:13:34
All right. We’ll have Kelsey
Norman Farrar 1:13:39
Oh, make sure that you enter Simon. Oh,
Kelsey 1:13:43
yeah, I got the 20 entries okay, I’m just going to make sure just a couple. We got an extra two from Simon. Perfect. Okay, so we’ll shuffle these up. We’ve got two giveaways today. So if you are the winner, please email me Kate at lunch. with.com. And here we go.
Norman Farrar 1:14:23
What a great giveaway All right, who got that? Oh, Nathan. All right. Congrats, Nathan.
Kelsey 1:14:35
writes, remove. And there we go. 321. So that’s Kate at lunch with Norm calm. And the next winner is Nicholas.
Diane Boerstler 1:14:52
Alright, fantastic. Need to start within. Last Name to start with? Yes, exactly. There we go. All right.
Norman Farrar 1:15:02
So yeah, just get your just email K at lunch with norm.com. And Kelsey, we’ll get you all Diane’s information.
Diane Boerstler 1:15:12
And those don’t expire. So if you don’t have a product yet, and you don’t have a product that you’re launching right now, where you don’t have one you want me to work on yet, you can always just circle back. Like, we just did one that I think was one last year. We just wrapped it up last week, because so yeah, so it’s not like you have to rush and do it. Like don’t try to think of something. Wait till you really, really want to use it. And then
Norman Farrar 1:15:32
just kind of like, Diane, thank you. I think I think the next time you come on, you probably have 11 kids, but you know, just kind of keep it in check.
Diane Boerstler 1:15:44
We’re good. At this point in time, you know, we’ve got the youngest this line, the oldest is 14. We’re you know, like we’re feeling pretty good about it. We bought a 15 passenger, hotel shuttle. Oh, my gosh, you really did. So don’t bless me with 11. Kids. We’re we’re good.
Norman Farrar 1:16:06
All right, Diane. Well, thank you so much for being on. I really appreciate you coming back and the topic you were just talking about five minutes ago. Yeah, we’re going to I think that’s a great topic. So we’ll, we’ll reach out. Okay, well, thank you.
Diane Boerstler 1:16:21
Thank you guys. Have an amazing day.
Norman Farrar 1:16:23
And you too. Alright, everybody. So I hope you enjoyed today’s show. I know you enjoyed today’s show. On Friday, we’re gonna have Brian Johnson on he hasn’t been on for a bit. And we’re going to be talking about hook split testing and increasing your infer conversion rate. So that’s going to tie in really nicely with some of the things that Diane was talking about today. But before we go any further, just another quick word from our sponsor. I wanted to give a quick shout out and say thank you to global wired advisors for sponsoring this episode of lunch with Norm. Global wired advisors is a leading digital investment bank focused on optimizing the business sales process. For more information, please call Chris shuffling and his team over at global wired advisors.com. All right, now we’re back, Kelsey. Yes.
Kelsey 1:17:19
Thank you, everyone for watching. We got fantastic response from everyone. Everyone loves Diane. And we can’t wait to have her back. So that’s great to see. Come back on Friday. We’ll be going live 12pm Eastern Time. And next week, I just want to give a little shout out to Tony as Tony cigar. He is giving away pillows all next week, as a special thank you so
Norman Farrar 1:17:47
fantastic. Just I didn’t know about that. Thanks, Tony Russell a little
Kelsey 1:17:50
bit. So yeah, we got a great list. We’ve also got Steven Pope coming up next week. So yeah, it’s gonna be great. Although we do have a brand new blog out on the lunch norm website from batida, where they collaborated with us, so check it out. Six ways to reduce your Amazon FBA fees. And, of course, our tick tock is up and growth going now. So check it out. That’s just lunch with Norm, and you’ll be able to find it. And
Norman Farrar 1:18:19
there’s no word on the TIC tock. It’s just it’s Kelsey. Senator,
Kelsey 1:18:23
from my perspective. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, check it out. And, of course, head over to our lunch with Norm. Facebook group. That’s one norm Amazon FBA and E commerce collective, if you want to join our community, our beer nation. And yeah, it’s great to hang out with
Norman Farrar 1:18:42
Kelsey with the nation to what’s happening is we really want to build engagement. And we’ve got great, like, we got tons and tons of people that are responding. We’re trying to do that even more. So. So look, we got Army, we want to Yeah, we want a nation. So we’re trying to, hey, look, we have a leaderboard every month, people that contribute the most, they go into a draw for a $50 gift card. And I guess we’re closing up the month fairly soon. I don’t know who the winner is this month. But you know, check it out. We we want that engagement on our Facebook page. So our group I should say Kelsey will correct me afterwards.
Kelsey 1:19:25
But yeah, that’s about it for today. All right. So that’s it. That’s it. Okay.
Norman Farrar 1:19:32
So join us every Monday, Wednesday and Friday at noon, Eastern Standard Time. And as I was just mentioning, this community’s awesome, we couldn’t do it without you. Enjoy your Wednesday and we’ll see you on Friday.
